Ikusagami Screenshots

[Ty]

SH-4 can transform 10 million raw polys/sec. The PowerVR CLX has a triangle setup limit of 7 million polys/sec.

The 7 million limit is related to scene buffer space quite probably.

Looking at those screens, at any given moment you only have a couple hundred models visible. The rest is so far you just need to use 2D sprites like lb said.

I would be surprised if there wasn't some aggressive LOD going on. I don't think you'd want to use 2D sprites though as that will really look fake when they are supposed to be in motion. Imagine what it would look like when the ones in the back run. They'd be gliding across the landscape unnaturally. 2D sprites or flip cards are OK for static/ridgid bodies but I don't think you'd want to use them for animated bodies.

Of course DC won't be able to light the scene at that quality level, but the rest is pretty trivial. There aren't that many particles from what I can see. For 300 characters each made up of 100 polygons and factoring in LOD, that's only 30K polys/frame.

Well it's tough to even guess what the average poly count for the models are. The ones in the front are certainly quite a bit higher than 100 (some pictures show mounts too) and I'm guessing the ones in the far back are less. Lighting quality? No clue really. I don't know why the DC would be worse off in this regard. /shrug. You also need to account for the terrain poly count. And the picture on the far left shows off a "zillion" particles as far as I can see.

 

[PC-Engine]

Considering Barbarian Invasion uses 300 polys per character and how smooth they appear, 100 polys average for the PS2 game sounds about right. Just look at the horses even up close, they look pretty blocky. Prebaked lightmaps onto textures can only hide so much.

 

[Ty]

Considering Barbarian Invasion uses 300 polys per character and how smooth they appear, 100 polys average for the PS2 game sounds about right. Just look at the horses even up close, they look pretty blocky. Prebaked lightmaps onto textures can only hide so much.

Hmm, I couldn't find a link about the poly count for Barbarian Invasion. Did go to their website (http://www.totalwar.com/community/rtwbi.htm) and click on that java link for a 3D view of one character.

Frankly, imo, it looks worse to me than the Samurai warrior in the foreground. I do agree that the Samurai horses are blocky but can any modelers here create this in just a hundred? The tail alone for the horse looks like a few polys.

 

[PC-Engine]

Uh a few posts up joe75 stated 300 polys.

Anyway...I see better texture usage to mask polygon numbers in the PS2 game.

 

[Ty]

Uh a few posts up joe75 stated 300 polys.

Anyway...I see better texture usage to mask polygon numbers in the PS2 game.

Yea, I was just looking for myself.

I agree the textures are better (though much more replication).

 

[joe75]

Uh a few posts up joe75 stated 300 polys.

Anyway...I see better texture usage to mask polygon numbers in the PS2 game.

... 300 polys /single sided/,pretty blocky.

... teh fingers etc.

... teh fingers,nose,sword etc. /Low poly model (polygons: 2342, vertex: 1252) Helmet included./

 

[AlNom]

Kingdom under Fire
http://gamedude.livedoor.biz/303140ee.jpg
... PC based CPU 733Mhz,UMA RAM 64MB,DX8 class GPU + UMA ram

This is hardly a typical scene with respect to characters on screen. And this pic is from the first level, which is very much a "training" level. Plus, this is a gameplay shot versus a probably cutscene screencap for Ikusagami.

edit: just pointing out a fairly poor image for comparison.

edit2: cutscenes in KUF can have a couple orders of magnitude greater characters onscreen than your example there.

 

[joe75]

This is hardly a typical scene with respect to characters on screen. And this pic is from the first level, which is very much a "training" level. Plus, this is a gameplay shot versus a probably cutscene screencap for Ikusagami.

edit: just pointing out a fairly poor image for comparison.

edit2: cutscenes in KUF can have a couple orders of magnitude greater characters onscreen than your example there.

... hm.


Here's a hilarious quote by the developer of KUF2 about the new game:

IGN: Why have you concentrated on the Xbox platform exclusively?

DL: Because of the scale of the battle, and the number of units we want to support. With the Xbox, we were able to bring that scale of war by bringing 200 units on any one screen and 3000 units on the battlefield. I think only Xbox could help us realize our original concept, and I think it helped us do it pretty well.

.
.

From IGN about Ikusa Gami which means "War of Gods":

Genki seems to be taking a shot at the madness of the battles in KOEI's Dynasty Warriors franchise, but on an unprecedented scale. The game promises to feature battle scenes with up to 65,535 units. This figure includes both allies and enemies, with both sides sending out massive armies for a fight to the end. Units can be seen far into the distance, and pack the screen so tightly that it's tough to see the ground below.


KUF

http://www.hsgamers.com/xbox/screenshots/kingdomunderfire/3.jpg

.
.

Kessen 2 /oldie but goldie/ .. teh magnitude el magnifico

... 500+ units per frame.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Units per screen iz teh NEW FLOPZ!!!

 

[AlNom]

Your KUF pic doesn't work...

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/37775/Kingdom-Under-Fire-Heroes/

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/25095/Kingdom-Under-Fire-The-Crusaders/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/28864/Kingdom-Under-Fire-The-Crusaders/

 

[joe75]

Your KUF pic doesn't work...

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/37775/Kingdom-Under-Fire-Heroes/

http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/25095/Kingdom-Under-Fire-The-Crusaders/
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/28864/Kingdom-Under-Fire-The-Crusaders/

... not bad,but Ikusagami is better for sure /units count,larger battfields,better view distance,extraordinary particle effecs/,and Kessen2 displays up to 500-600 units per frame plus simple enviroment and very cool magic effects.

Ikusagami

http://playfrance.com/images/ps2/1,9,5,7,2/zoom/4846.jpg
http://playfrance.com/news/images/1,9,5,7,2/zoom/2964.jpg

... watch teh radar in upper right corner /first image/ .. TEH RED DOTS.

 

[mckmas8808]

What is the red dots in the first picture.

 

[AlNom]

... not bad,but Ikusagami is better for sure /units count,larger battfields,better view distance,extraordinary particle effecs/,and Kessen2 displays up to 500-600 units per frame plus simple enviroment and very cool magic effects.

Just wanted to give a slightly better comparison. The particle effects with the magic spells are still pretty neat to watch in KUF, but they are not often seen in screenshots. It's kinda hard to see the best of KUF:TC when there are 50 levels.

 

[Ty]

Considering Barbarian Invasion uses 300 polys per character and how smooth they appear, 100 polys average for the PS2 game sounds about right. Just look at the horses even up close, they look pretty blocky. Prebaked lightmaps onto textures can only hide so much.

Well I showed a collegue (modeler/animator).

He basically reiterated what I said.

With the limited views it's pretty hard to judge accurately. Though he firmly believes the models in the foreground are most certainly above 100 and likely above 300 as well. He also mentions that we should try to refer to Tris and not polys since some engines have different definitions for them.

 

[joe75]

What is the red dots in the first picture.

... one red dot = one unit

 

[thundermonkey]

ps2 has such a weird design, who knows what it can do. first normal mapping then 10's of thousands of people on screen. then again they could be including the horse models. btw is there any game on ps2 the has fur shading? i thought sotc had em but i dont know.

Wanda and the Collosus has some pretty nifty fur and grass-shading effects on the giants.

Grass:

Fur:

Gotta love that Ico team.

 

[pixelbox]

Wanda and the Collosus has some pretty nifty fur and grass-shading effects on the giants.

Grass:

Fur:

Gotta love that Ico team.

thanks a lot. i knew it was, i was just trying to train my eyes to pick up on things like this. ps2 isnt known for such things, so one of my thoughts were that they could have been detailed textures

 

[Farid]

Reminder, folks!

Topic is: Ikusagami.

This if done well, this game could be a good option for all the Dynasty Warriors fans.

 

[Huh?]

Complex Fur (Harder to make) can be seen in Tekken 5.

PS2 was doing 7.5M polys @ 60FPS with Jak 1.
Jak 2 almost doubled that figure at 60FPS.
Should be safe to say PS2 can do 20M+ polys @ 30FPS

Highest Pixel Fillrate of this generation of consoles is on PS2.
That is fact, regardless how good/bad the games look.
This is why Zoe2, MGS2, Burnout 3/4, and a few stages in SC3 just can't be done properly on the other two consoles. I'm sure there are other examples, but those are off the top of my head.

More Fur, and even better and more abundant use of it, can be seen in Soul Calibur 3.
http://www.soulcalibur3.us/ had links to some amazing screen captures but they were removed via Namco's request.


And to get back on topic:

I'm sure it is, again, that massive fillrate the PS2 has that is allowing all those characters on screen. Whether 80% of them are sprites doesn't matter, the point is that the massive fillrate on PS2 has its uses.

 

[PC-Engine]

Fillrate has very little to do with how many characters you can display onscreen.