If a GPU was a dedicated to pushing sprites instead of polygons...

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Flux, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Flux

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    How many sprites can a Hollywood,Xenos,and RSX can consistantly push in a ideal environment?

    Can they 360, or PS3 push more sprites on 480p than on high definition resolutions?
     
  2. DeanA

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    <moe>Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?</moe>

    What kind of a question is that?!

    Someone lock this, please... before it spins out of control and makes me (and Baby Jesus) cry.. :cry:

    Dean
     
  3. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    Don't make Dean cry! on the other hand can you imagine how many sprites could one render just using CELL? ;)
     
  4. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    Well, technically the most powerful 2D sprite-based GPU ever was the Atari Jaguar's. When doing 3D graphics, most Jaguar games tried to fit in clever framebuffer/blitting effects to jazz up the otherwise primitive images.

    I believe Jaguar was capable of a few hundred sprites per line with little to no slowdown.

    Other than that, though, you can always "pretend" you're rendering 2D by using pairs of triangles parallel to the camera lens and making the "sprites" textures... in which case you're limited by overdraw and fillrate, but you could probably squeeze out a few thousand sprites per line, possibly tens of thousands, before really breaking down, on a PS3 or 360.
     
  5. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    Well, actually I can! Someone (tweakoz at ps2dev.org) was playing around with the Cell, using 4 SPEs to blit to the framebuffer under Linux, and got the following results (full screen mode under Linux):

    1080i: fps: 801 [6336 MB/Sec]
    720p: fps: 1577 [5544 MB/Sec]
    480i: fps: 2759 [3637 MB/Sec]

    So just decide the size of your average sprite and you can calculate how many of them you can push.

    :D

    (http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=7209)
     
  6. Rainbow Man

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    I heard the same said abiout the sega saturn many many years ago.

    Considering Sega's solid arcade heritage I'm inclined to believe it..

    eace.
     
  7. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
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    That would be a very unefficient way to do sprites on CELL..
     
  8. Arwin

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    Well, I suppose so, but then this is just the first Cell program someone built for the Cell SDK under Linux and I thought it was rather funny in this context. ;)
     
  9. Fafalada

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    What, you got something against 2d games? :razz:

    Indeed, I counted around 308GB/sec of sprite bandwith :p
     
  10. ERP

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    In answer to this, more than you would find practically useful in a 2D game.
     
  11. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    To answer this, yes they can push more sprites at lower resolutions because they have less pixels to draw.

    Though as has been hinted at in the above responses, this whole question is moot. It's improbable you'll hit any sprite limits, unless you're drawing millions of transparent sprites over each other with alpha-blending.
     
  12. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    Saturn cheated, it has two GPUs. One for backgrounds (up to 5 layers, or 3 with 2 of them using scale/rotate/skew "mode 7" effects), and one for foreground objects. Saturn, however, still had hard coded limits on how much you could draw. Jaguar was only limited by how much slowdown you generated from adding more junk. XD
     
  13. RacingPHT

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    I've made a demo in the past, using sprites to simulate balls.
    with a complex vertex shader, I can push 80M sprites/sec on 78GT. It means that I can draw 1 million balls on screen without having geometry problem.

    Sprites are really fun, but ATI limits its size :???:
     
  14. archie4oz

    archie4oz ea_spouse is H4WT!
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    Thinking back to my youthful Hudson/Saturn days, the Saturn doesn't cheat, it simply doesn't count as it doesn't really use the traditional blitter/line-buffer sprite engine where sprites per line . The Saturn draws 1-4 vert (depending on sprite type) sprites into a frame-buffer then fills with either CLUT values or texture data. But there's no "hard coded" limits.

    The Jag's Object Processor OTOH reads sprite object headers (phrases in Atari parlance) and writes out pixels to a line buffer. It'll write 2 CRY pixels (16-bit pixels) per clock, but you're constrained by the read rate of the Object Processor (1 phrase per clock (2 phrases for a normal sprite, 3 for a scaled sprite)). So for both systems it boils down to command issue/read rate, pixel clock and data transfer...
     
  15. Crazyace

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    The trouble with the jaguar though was that the backgrounds were also sprites. So if you had 4 scroll planes that were busy that would seriously reduce the active number of sprites available per line.

    All a bit moot nowadays though :)
     
  16. kimg

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    Would it be possible to make a orb based graphics drawing mechanism for a GPU based on something simmiliar, using arrays of 2d units, a GPGPU element who calculate surfaces to 2d sprites in immense layers?

    I got no idea if its even remotely feastible, it just struck me the result could be kind of "uniqe", and full 3d :razz:
     
  17. RacingPHT

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    The only thing I see that is related to what you are talking about is "Volume shading"
    but it's nothing to do with point sprites.:roll:
     
  18. xatnys

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    I'd like to see crazy HD danmaku games myself. Millions of sprites? Jesus... :S
     
  19. RacingPHT

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    GPU's are very very powerful on sprites. GCN and PS2 could draw 25-50 million simple sprites per second. PS3 and X360 could do push 100s of millions, of course. I think the real problem is fillrate.
     
  20. JohnyBeGood

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    Actually, PS2 could draw 18,75 million 8*8 pixel sprites per second ,i think.Gamecube had a 648 MPixel fillrate , so that could mean 10,125 million 64 pixel sprites/sec.Pls correct if i'm wrong.
     
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