I hate dieting!

[Silent_Buddha]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that what one person requires for food can be quite different than other people. Something that was touched on here and there in this thread.

Cold weather climate areas are going to require different nutrition than hot weather climates. When I lived in Taiwan, I was naturally very thin, in hot weather like that it's naturally advantageous to have much body fat, assuming a steady source of food.

Cold weather climates like say Wisconsin or at the extremes, Alaska, you'd want to have a diet that can keep some fat on. Living in Eastern Washington where it can get quite cold during the winter, I've naturally put on some fat (although right now I have TOO much fat) which alleviates problems with cold weather and makes it easier for the body to cope. Going back to Taiwan now, it's absolutely intolerable without cooling of some kind, bad enough that it is virtually impossible to sleep.

On the other hand when I first moved to Eastern washington, winters there were absolutely brutal on my virtually no fat body. It wasn't until I'd put on some weight and some fat that the cold become almost a non-issue. People in Japan think it's weird when I walk around in t-shirt and shorts in early spring or late autumn.

Interestingly it's far easier for me to lose weight in 3 months in Japan during the summer than it is in Spokane during 3 months in the winter. All with virtually the same diet, exercise and food intake. But that shouldn't be a surprise.

And then there's the whole thing with your geneology. If your racial background has traditionally eaten a certain type of food, eating food not of that type can have unforseen consequences even if it's healthy food for another racial background.

I don't really subscribe to the view that there is one diet that is good for everyone. As there are just way to many factors at play to say X diet is the one.

Regards,
SB

 

[NRP]

Activities I've found to be particularly effective for weight loss are cycling and some weight lifting. Low carb diet works well too. It actually lowered my cholesterol and really dropped my tri-glycerides.

Cycling is pretty low impact, so I recommend it.

 

[Grall]

People are too scared of carbs these days... It's become a sort of evil spectre that's blamed for all sorts of wicked stuff.

If we look at the far east, poor people there mainly survive on rice, which is (almost) entirely carbs - like 3% protein or something, and a tiny bit of fat. Are they immensely obese? No, not really...

The body needs energy to drive cellular metabolism. This energy comes from burning carbs. Just the brain needs the equivalent of ~100g of glucose daily to support itself, according to what I've read. If we eat carbs in our regular meals, but keep overall calorie intake below the threshold of what the body needs to sustain itself at our current level of activity, those carbs obviously aren't going to convert into fatty tissue.

They're going to be burned by our cells, along with bodyfat from stores, so that we don't pass out and die.

So our problem isn't that we eat carbs. It's that we just eat TOO MUCH on the whole. If we eat more than the body requires, regardless of if it's carbohydrates or fats, we'll gain weight. Pretty sure protein doesn't convert into fatty tissue though, but like someone mentioned previously, too much of it isn't healthy either. Not sure where the daily limit is though, if you could even reasonably reach it by eating normal high-protein foods such as meats, cheese, durum wheat/oats, beans/lentils and so on. You may have to resort to concentrated protein supplements to be able to overdose...

 

[N00b]

Activities I've found to be particularly effective for weight loss are cycling and some weight lifting. Low carb diet works well too. It actually lowered my cholesterol and really dropped my tri-glycerides.

Cycling is pretty low impact, so I recommend it.

Cycling as well as any endurance improving activity is not a good idea if you want to keep the lower weight.*

The problem is that when you build up endurance you actually train your body to do more with less. While you are actively training this effect is overcompensated by the amount of training. But once you reduce the training or worse stop completely (because of lack of time or sickness) that becomes a problem because your body will require less energie compared to the time before you started to work-out. And since you usually don't eat less when you stop exercising you will almost instantly put on weight. Actually that's one major cause of the yo-yo effect.

So it's better to prefer a work-out that emphasizes on muscle build-up. Because the more muscles you have the more energy your body needs (even if you don't work out) and in case you stop or reduce the work-out muscles will decrease slowly meaning no immediate calorie surplus and therefore less yo-yo effect.

* In order to really loose weight endurance sports are ok, if you know you can exercise regularly. But once you reach your weight goal you should shift away from endurance to muscle build-up.

 

[Mize]

Cycling as well as any endurance improving activity is not a good idea if you want to keep the lower weight.*


* In order to really loose weight endurance sports are ok, if you know you can exercise regularly. But once you reach your weight goal you should shift away from endurance to muscle build-up.

Uh...take that with a large bag of salt. Endurance athletes have, in general, very low body fat. If you can consistently log 30-40 road miles of running or 150-200 bike miles/week you're going to lower your body fat.

Most weight lifters have higher body fat than runners or cyclist. Personally I think doing both is best with the caveat that your aerobic work will hamper efforts to build power.

 

[Neb]

So our problem isn't that we eat carbs. It's that we just eat TOO MUCH on the whole. If we eat more than the body requires, regardless of if it's carbohydrates or fats, we'll gain weight. Pretty sure protein doesn't convert into fatty tissue though, but like someone mentioned previously, too much of it isn't healthy either. Not sure where the daily limit is though, if you could even reasonably reach it by eating normal high-protein foods such as meats, cheese, durum wheat/oats, beans/lentils and so on. You may have to resort to concentrated protein supplements to be able to overdose...

But remember there is a big difference between slow and fast carbs and how it affects insuline levels and fat storage system. But yes one should not exceed ones total energy requirement per day with some variation.

I myself lost quite a good deal of fat from my previous bulking process while gaining a good amount of muscle so far for 2 months. I am getting back into my previous state from several years ago. Ofcourse muscle gains will be limited on a diet but a good diet means you at minmum keep your muscle mass instead of lossing it in the process of lossing fat with diet.

I would never recommend anyone to drop more than 500kcal below your ideal requirements per day for your body. Never skip the breakfast becouse after your sleep your body needs energy and if it cant get hold of it it will break down muscle tissue for energy use.

The way I have done for 2 months is to first thing at breakfast is to drink a protein (whey) shake with fast carbs (maltodextrin) added together with milk so that it becomes a light gainer class shake. Then I eat a bowl of muesli with just raisins as fruit component with milk. Now that gives me good amount of energy and makes it a good start for the day. For dinner I keep it fairly high on protein with adequate amounts of slow carb food and limited fat amount. If I eat bread I only eat compact dark bread with good amount of fibres and I have completly skipped butter on the bread aswell as soda/beer except fridays!

Before training I sip a bit on a protein drink to just get the amino acids and a bit of fast carbs (I skip fast carbs if I am going to do cardio as otherwise it will be the first thing to get used by body and prolong fat burning initiation). Then directly after workout I'll drink the rest of the shake. Also before bed I take a drink with just protein of the type kasein which digests slower than whey for the duration of the sleep.

3-5 times weightlifting (40-60min each pass) and 4-5 times (max 40min each pass) cardio per week. about max 40-50min for cardio for each pass is ideal to keep fat as main energy source without body swtiching to other fuel source.

All that while keeping my kcal intake at around 2000 from my ideal of 2500 and I dont feel hungry during the day.

has worked damn good for me. :smile:

 

[N00b]

Uh...take that with a large bag of salt. Endurance athletes have, in general, very low body fat. If you can consistently log 30-40 road miles of running or 150-200 bike miles/week you're going to lower your body fat.

Most weight lifters have higher body fat than runners or cyclist. Personally I think doing both is best with the caveat that your aerobic work will hamper efforts to build power.

You should read more carefully before you post.

The problem problem with endurance sports is not that don't lose enough weight, the problem is that you gain weight very quickly once you stop or reduce training too much. If Grall would run 30 miles a week or cycle 200 miles consistently he wouldn't have posted in the first place because he would not need lose weight.

Now most hobby athletes (including myself) mostly start with their outdoor exercises somewhere in spring, peak summer and then stop pretty abruptly in autumn when the weather gets too cold (or when they get sick or time runs low or lose interest). And that's when they regain weight pretty quickly if they mostly do endurance sports. And more times than not they end up fatter than they were. So as autumn approaches less endurance more muscle build-up will result in a longer lasting lower weight.

As for the argument that weight lifters have body fat than runners, that's pretty thin. Weight lifting is not the only sports where you can build up muscles. How about body building? At least there is not much body fat in this guy.

 

[Neb]

As for the argument that weight lifters have body fat than runners, that's pretty thin. Weight lifting is not the only sports where you can build up muscles. How about body building? At least there is not much body fat in this guy.

Many weightlifters and all bodybuilders bulk up to have body mass to shape so to say. Then before contest of for prime time like summer they increase cardio and change diet to loose fat. Most bodbuilders also take ephedrin before contest to look slimmer with less water in body aswell as coat the body to highlight muscle definiton.

 

[Mize]

Not to mention that the vast majority of bodybuilders use steroids.

You're absolutely right about the metabolic benefits of increased muscle mass. That's why I said weight training was important. There is no link, however, between weight training and heart health, cholestrol, blood pressure and a host of other things. Weights are key (and I would argue whole body free weight lifts like squats and deadlifts are the best), but cardio is equally important.

Furthermore, as we age, we are far more likely to injure ourselves with strength training than with cardio & recovery times get much longer. I used to be able to do small & medium muscle groups every other day & heavy squats & deadlifts every three days. At forty-three I have to say my recovery times have nearly doubled.

 

[N00b]

Another, often overlooked, reason for over-weight and obesity is stress. When people are stressed they put on weight. When stress is reduced they loose weight. There is research that links this to high blood levels of cortisol. Here is a nice article that explains the background and what you can do against high cortisol.

BTW, a low calorie diet increases cortisol. So reducing calories without reducing stress (e.g. by exercise) may be futile undertaking from the beginning.

 

[RobertR1]

If you don't have a lot of time, doing HIIT training is always there. You need to be mentally strong for proper HIIT though. I'd only recommend HIIT training to those who like to push themselves and have a competitive nature. If you're more of a pace setter, stick to endurance activities and traditional workout routines.

 

[Davros]

I thoroughly recommend the cindy crawford workout video
I've only been watching it for a week and already the muscles in my right arm................

 

[Neb]

I thoroughly recommend the cindy crawford workout video
I've only been watching it for a week and already the muscles in my right arm................

Davros you...

 

[Simon F]

ARGGHH...

Loose fat would fall off your body because it was not firmly attached. It would not be difficult to lose.

Maybe it's a lack of the correct level of carbohydrates in a diet that cause an extra "o" to appear in internet postings?

 

[N00b]

Not to mention that the vast majority of bodybuilders use steroids.

Yet the ordinary Joe Sixpack who works out at a gym does not, just like the ordinary runner or cyclist does not use EPO.

There is no link, however, between weight training and heart health, cholestrol, blood pressure and a host of other things.

That's not entirely true, isn't it. It's just that endurance training is more effective.

Weights are key (and I would argue whole body free weight lifts like squats and deadlifts are the best), but cardio is equally important.

Agreed. But that's not the point. The point it that most people will usually stop dieting and working out at one point for various reasons. And if at that time they mostly do endurance they will start to yo-yo instantly, if they do more muscle they will not as fast.

Furthermore, as we age, we are far more likely to injure ourselves with strength training than with cardio & recovery times get much longer. I used to be able to do small & medium muscle groups every other day & heavy squats & deadlifts every three days. At forty-three I have to say my recovery times have nearly doubled.

Agreed. But you seem to be the type who regularly works out and keeps a strict regime, so this works for you. Most people I know don't have that kind of self-discipline or they simply lack the time sooner or later. So I'm trying to be practical here.

ARGGHH...

Loose fat would fall off your body because it was not firmly attached. It would not be difficult to lose.

Maybe it's a lack of the correct level of carbohydrates in a diet that cause an extra "o" to appear in internet postings?

Itt's te speling pollice! Runn!

 

[Simon F]

Itt's te speling pollice! Runn!

You can't run and you can't hide

 

[Silent_Buddha]

People are too scared of carbs these days... It's become a sort of evil spectre that's blamed for all sorts of wicked stuff.

If we look at the far east, poor people there mainly survive on rice, which is (almost) entirely carbs - like 3% protein or something, and a tiny bit of fat. Are they immensely obese? No, not really...

That's not exactly a good thing to go by. You can gain a lot of weight eating rice only or a mainly rice and vegetable diet.

If you look at many of the oriental countries, lack of significant weight gain is a combination of two factors, longer work hours and less pay = less food. Many people will live just barely on the edge of hunger at all times.

If you look at China (in the cities), Japan, and Taiwan, you'll notice that on average they are getting fatter as they can afford to eat more. I notice this especially in Japan as each year I come here, high school kids get fatter/larger. It's vastly different than when I first started coming here regularly back in 1985. They tend to lose some of it once they enter the workforce as they start to work long hours 6 days a week. But even there people are heavier than they were 30 years ago.

BTW - check out Buddhists at more affluent temples around the orient that do not regulate their food intake. They can get quite large eating only rice and vegetables.

And as pointed out earlier, my cousin only gains weight when he starts eating rice. And Hawai'ians another geographic location with large rice consumption tends towards the chubby and large.

And only anecdotal evidence here, but weight gain in the US seems to have accelerated when the US government moved away from the 4 food groups and instituted the nutrition pyramid with carbs as the basis of the largest food group to be consumed. Which then influenced public school dietary guidelines not to mention people trying to switch and subsequently gaining weight.

Regards,
SB

 

[Mize]

The fat problem in China and Japan isn't one of wealth. It is the growth of the Western diet and sedentary lifestyles.

Number one fast food in China is KFC followed by McD's. In Japan beef is now hugely popular.

Couple that with less walking and some Chinese and Japanese are getting really fat. Hell, Japan has had wealth for decades and rice and beer have been staples without seeing fat people like you do in the US. Nobody ever read the four food groups or that pyramid anyways.

My anecdotal evidence is that the Midwest US is fat, has the lowest % of sidewalks (more driving), no bikes lanes, yucky Summer weather and tons of air conditioning. Consequence is McD's for Dinner whilst playing video games

 

[Gubbi]

I agree. Carbs aren't the enemy, it's the sheer quantity of calories and the lack of exercise.

Cheers

 

[Grall]

That's not exactly a good thing to go by. You can gain a lot of weight eating rice only or a mainly rice and vegetable diet.

You can gain a lot of weight from any form of high-calorie diet. That was my point, pretty much. If intake > expenditure = weight gain. Just saying carbs = bad is meaningless (and wrong). Eating too much of it is bad, but eating too much fat is also bad, so what we learn from this exercise is BAD = BAD. Nothing more.

And only anecdotal evidence here, but weight gain in the US seems to have accelerated when the US government moved away from the 4 food groups and instituted the nutrition pyramid with carbs as the basis of the largest food group to be consumed.

When was this supposed to have happened? America was a quite fat country as far back as the mid-80s, dunno before then as I was too young before then to really care all that much about anything important...