hypothetical question!?!#@
- Thread starter zidane1strife
- Start date
You make it sound to reject is something light.
You reject that 2 years old, by not giving him food, water, clothes, shelter and love for all his life.
And at the end of your life that 2 years old say he wants to give you eternal happiness and life with him, and you said no, go away, I'd rather be away from you because I hate you all my life, your wish will be granted.
V3 said:
I know this version of how it goes well... doesnt make anymore sense than the primitive hellenistic version of a fiery pit...
Theological mode on:
No one rejects a true loving god. The only problem in those who seem to do is that they dont know or believe in a true loving god... mere technicality if you ask me. Once God properly manifests himself in the hearts of men they will recognize him. So what the purpose of life might be then? To know a thing is necessary to experience it I think. Once we've seen what this life is and what evil is and what it leads to we'll be set for the following eternal journey of discovery of existence...
So Im pretty much non denom xtian on this issue. I think no one is left behind. Our individual and collective negative experiences down here will prep us for whatever lies ahead later... But in no way will any of it last 'forever'.
Hell isn't so bad then, since I rejected the myth years ago. (yes I can't rule out a Spinoza type deity, so technically im agnostic)
As far as the original premise of the thread. I don't know how there can even be a notion of criminals. If they can't kill or hurt you since your invulnerable and omniscient, can't rob you since you already have everything, what then is a crime?
The whole thing is of course nonsensical, b/c an omniscient society/deity poses paradoxes that are impossible to get around.
As far as the original premise of the thread. I don't know how there can even be a notion of criminals. If they can't kill or hurt you since your invulnerable and omniscient, can't rob you since you already have everything, what then is a crime?
The whole thing is of course nonsensical, b/c an omniscient society/deity poses paradoxes that are impossible to get around.
laugh, your right. i wish i would have thought of it first.Fred said:
later,
zidane1strife
Banned
What the? I didn't say the society was omniscient, just that they did not have comm/trans problems.
As for crimes for example superman is invulnerable yet he can feel pain, also assuming they're living in a pseudomaterial world their possesions can be stolen, and there is always psychological and sexual abuse, etc...
Or we can put another example one more inline with the idea of the soul... suppose these people play a vr/matrix esque game, they remain there for a few decades(a vr sim similar to our world), completely oblivious of their reality while there, when they come out... would such a society condemn to eternal torment those who misbehaved within the game?
If you don't know and completely ignorant than its a mere technicality, but when you don't believe, that's something from your heart, and isn't a technicality anymore.
To worship and share the glory and goodness of God.
God created us, for personal relationship with him. Without God full manifestation, we try to replace the gap in our heart, with knowledge and many other things for our satisfaction. That gap can only be filled by serving the purpose that God intended from the beginning. Only then can men be satisfied.
In hell, there will be complete void in your heart for God. The longing for God will burn you for eternity.
please rephrase this.
??? Thats funny. God is perfect and yet he needs our love? Odd.
Oh come on. People may say no but exposed to the raw fact of his existance at the ends of their lives might sober up the massives. Is God's ego not being stroked by them worth them going to hell over? Does this seem at all reasonable to you? You pax have complained more about civil injustive than any one i have had the chance to speak to in these threads and yet when the great God of heaven threatens eternal suffering and torment on those whom do not please him you simply accept? A bit inconsistant don't you think?
No one wishes to burn in hell for all eternity Pax. No one wished to live in the torment that is life Pax. God's bruise ego hardly equals suffering through holocausts and plagues. As far as i can say if he does exist, he can kiss my ass.
V3 said:
I dont believe people would reject something as manifest as Gods love in their hearts. Therefore I dont believe in the idea that those who dont believe are choosing that because of some innate evil. They dont believe because they think god is real. They dont believe becasue they think he doesnt exist as they see paradox (even tho mistakenly) in the problem of evil. Not because they dont want god in their life. Many who dont believe I feel are traumatised people who shouldnt be judged so harshly.
We cant fully live gods purpose on earth if we dont 'know' him fully which wont happen until he manifests fully and not just as a story or concept or moral imperative. As strong as I think the moral and theological imperative is I dont think it replaces gods presence in our lives.
To believe in some eternal hell in my mind sullies the idea of a loving God more than anything I can think of.
You mean manipulating them through mind control.
If they had innate evil who would be to blame for that? The person or God? Surely they did not choose to be innately evil.
No. I believe the vast majority of people don't believe in God purely do to the concept.
I think it is safe to say the don't see the importance of it.
Many of the people who believe are traumatised by God and continue to believe. take for example characters within the bible. If God has become God of compassion it has been only for short time.
Kind of a catch 22 don't you think? We can't know him untill he decides to make him known to us.
I believe you confuse love with the presence of God. You can love without God. You have no physical proof of God.
I would say that is rather you God's fault.
I understand your frustration with the idea of God. Suffering is hard to take. The problem of evil is for many not answered in their minds. But you are dealing with a concept. You have to define the idea of a loving God and then you have to wrap a theology around the problem of evil and suffering aroudnit that makes sense of it. If instead you choose not to believe or explore the idea of God you only neglect and hurt that part of your intellectual life as there are no other satisfying and meaningful answers to evil and suffering.
But the way you describe God seems to me more like the description of the devil...
But the way you describe God seems to me more like the description of the devil...
pax said:
Allow me to explain; i have done my fair share of research.
This is more than a pathos argument pax.
What is evil to you isn't so to me. I don't dabble in the absolutes.
In other words create a scenerio in my mind that removes God from any seat of reponsibility and then devote all my time to this great absentee father in the sky while blinding myself to reason.
There are plenty of answers. None of which relate to the almighty.
The two are the same. God created Satan with the intent of producing evil.
zidane1strife
Banned
It is my belief that Satan does not exist.
zidane1strife said:
Late post here I havent had much time to post lately... But the problem of God creating the devil presumes no free will. Anyone can become an adversary by choice in judeo-xtian thought. Satan is aramaic for 'adversary'. So to say God had intent is wrong. In a way yea god can create a rock so heavy even he cant lift it... And he can make creatures whose destiny he cant foresee...
So the problem of evil isnt to lay the blame with god but with us individually. This is the basis of western culture and thought. Individual responsibility. Its the basis of current capitalism. I dont lie to apply it to everything as its obvious teamwork gets a lot of things get done mcuh better and more quickly but ultimately I willa gree with the conservative mantra that individuals are morally and spiritually repsonsible for their situation.
We see a relatively simple outline then to our predicament. Born into a world of evil... why? Accusing the idea of a perfect God as also the supreme assholer of the universe is self defeating in any kind of theological construct. If god is an asshole where do you go from there? What do you do with the idea of free will?
We suddenly get stuck and see no way out in either finding a proper explanation for our situation where so many suffer more than others. We see no resolution for unfairness of the world. And yet its such a strong drive in ourselves to find fairness if only in theology and the 'next world'.
Jewish thinkers laid the perfcet foundation for that with free will and the supreme idea an concept of god. Its obviuous to me we are here now in an unfair world not because of some mindless mechanism but because we chose to be here. We made choices in full knowledge of the consequences. It entails some kind of belief in karma or pre existance. Not resincarnation mind you... But the bible does have stories of perfect beings failing in heaven. Because you cant have some things both ways...
I dont want to get into too many details just show where the reasonsing leads to when you accept some basic tenets like free will and a supreme being.