How to deal with major Announcements and not Osbourne *spawn*

I take objection to you calling it spin. I'm not trying to create a narrative but just expressing my interpretation and response to this. It's not the number of games complained about either, but the quality and type. It's exactly as I've expressed - it looks like the platform is 'slowing down'. Same as, same, PS+'s extra games. This went from multiple big ticket games and indie darlings to a fair amount of filler at times.

I guess it depends on what you consider quality and type.

Oct. saw Dishonored 2, F1 2018, Cities: Skylines, Shadow Warrior 2, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Prey, etc.

And for extremely highly rated indie titles in Oct. Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Book of Demons, Dead Cells, Enter the Gungeon, Slay the Spire, etc.

That's only about half the titles added in Oct. that I can recall off the top of my head. I don't exactly see that as a sign of things slowing down. Many of those weren't announced more than a week or so before they appeared on the platform. Heck, some weren't even announced prior to them just showing up.

And that's ignoring MS Studio titles.

Nov. has already seen Rage 2, Remnant from the Ashes, and some other fairly high profile titles.

I suppose if someone were to think of the announced "coming to Game Pass" list as a comprehensive list of games then that could be seen as disappointing. People should be looking at it as a Preview of what's to come. AAA 3rd party games are rarely announced more than a week or so ahead of their release onto Game Pass.

I guess that's something hard to communicate. Maybe put a footnote on those things saying that AAA games are coming but cannot be announced ahead of time? But that seems really awkward.

For example, if iD and Microsoft have already inked a deal for Doom: Eternal to appear on Game Pass 6 months after release, they certainly wouldn't want it announced now.

So, I guess the problem is -- how do you advertise that titles are coming to the platform without being able to mention ALL the titles coming to the platform?

Regards,
SB
 
Something I found interesting from the Phil Spencer interview that Eurogamer did. (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-11-15-the-big-xo19-interview-xbox-boss-phil-spencer )

You touched on this in your opening remarks, where you said this enables games with a beginning, middle and end. I found myself marvelling that I'm cheering that games can be games again, that this is the world we live in.

Phil Spencer: The number of single-player games being built has gone down as an overall percentage of the games being built. I say that and people throw Sony's first-party at me or something, and they've done a great job building single-player games. It's not really about that. I see all of the games all of the publishers are building. I have - not because I'm smart - I have insight into what's coming and what the publishers are thinking. The thing I saw a couple of years ago was, everybody is kind of chasing this perpetual, how do I keep everybody into all of my franchises all of the time? This is when I said, Game Pass can actually enable great single-player games and stories to be told.

There was a little bit of conflict when I said that. But it was nice to see something like Outer Worlds. Yes, it's from one of our studios, but to boot that game and know that if I want to be done in 20 hours from now I can be. And if I want to play it for longer I can. There are certain games where that's what they should be, and I love that.

I think that's great that one of the goals for Phil Spencer WRT to Game Pass is to try to foster and provide a platform for more finite single player games that don't attempt to monetize player engagement.

If you remove the barrier of purchase then people won't feel, unconsciously or not, that a game that doesn't offer say 50+ hours of gameplay would not be worth paying for. There's no barrier to experiencing a game that's just 2 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours and at the end, the consumer won't feel like they possibly spent too money for too short an experience.

That said, obviously they won't block games from appearing on the service that DO monetize player engagement. Only that it provides a platform for games that don't do that which allows them to reach a significantly wider audience than if someone had to pay piecemeal for each game.

Regards,
SB
 
I take objection to you calling it spin. I'm not trying to create a narrative but just expressing my interpretation and response to this. It's not the number of games complained about either, but the quality and type. It's exactly as I've expressed - it looks like the platform is 'slowing down'. Same as, same, PS+'s extra games. This went from multiple big ticket games and indie darlings to a fair amount of filler at times.

I don't think you're spinning. I just think you aren't fully considering all of the differences inherent in doing a list of upcoming releases for this type of platform. As other's have pointed out, it's not just a possibility that that list isn't complete, there are reasons that it's pretty much impossible that it could be.
 
I take objection to you calling it spin. I'm not trying to create a narrative but just expressing my interpretation and response to this. It's not the number of games complained about either, but the quality and type. It's exactly as I've expressed - it looks like the platform is 'slowing down'. Same as, same, PS+'s extra games. This went from multiple big ticket games and indie darlings to a fair amount of filler at times.

You can't say that about the 2020 Games Pass catalog yet. Right now there's almost the same amount of big ticket games as Indies & we won't hear from 3rd parties until they are on the service. So it's a bit premature.

BTW if you have been keeping up with Game Pass games since it launched you would know that the catalog has gotten better every month with equal amount of big & small games. So when I see an outsider with a limited view trying to pass it as negativea view, I will call it spin every time.

Tommy McClain
 
You can't say that about the 2020 Games Pass catalog yet. Right now there's almost the same amount of big ticket games as Indies & we won't hear from 3rd parties until they are on the service. So it's a bit premature.
I did not say Game Pass for 2020 is crap. I said it looks weak; I can only discuss the message as I'm not psychic and don't know whatever titles will also be included.

BTW if you have been keeping up with Game Pass games since it launched you would know that the catalog has gotten better every month with equal amount of big & small games. So when I see an outsider with a limited view trying to pass it as negativea view, I will call it spin every time.
Stop being so defensive. It's not spin. I have no agenda. I'm talking about a company's business move here, their communication, and a POV about how I don't think it's selling their service as well as it could. Game Pass has received updates every month and MS's hasn't felt the need before to give a one-year look-ahead. I don't understand the value of communicating a one year look-ahead if that isn't a really strong position. MS want potential subscribers to look at the catalogue and think, "flippin' 'eck I want me some of that!" This 2020 highlight doesn't look that significant to me.

Personal opinion. Agree or disagree, but don't bring bloody console war crap into the discussion.
 
I did not say Game Pass for 2020 is crap. I said it looks weak; I can only discuss the message as I'm not psychic and don't know whatever titles will also be included.

Did I say you were calling it crap? You mentioned 2020 lineup was not looking good. I said you can't say that yet.

Stop being so defensive. It's not spin. I have no agenda. I'm talking about a company's business move here, their communication, and a POV about how I don't think it's selling their service as well as it could. Game Pass has received updates every month and MS's hasn't felt the need before to give a one-year look-ahead. I don't understand the value of communicating a one year look-ahead if that isn't a really strong position. MS want potential subscribers to look at the catalogue and think, "flippin' 'eck I want me some of that!" This 2020 highlight doesn't look that significant to me.

Personal opinion. Agree or disagree, but don't bring bloody console war crap into the discussion.

Ok Neil Cavuto how do you convince holiday shoppers to buy into a platform this year that has a service that is constantly changing & will get better next year but you can't tell them what all those titles will be right now? I really would like to know what a wise business entrepreneur as yourself would do.

Anyway, if you can convince them this year that the future is bright for the service, they are less likely to jump to a different service or platform next year. A year that will see 2 new platforms launch. I think it's a great time to show prospective buyers what the future will bring.

And my personal opinion is that 3 new 1st party IPs plus their other 1st party games, a slew of Final Fantasy & Yakuza games & load of new & different Indies is a great way to show new users it's a great lineup for the next year. I would even say it's solid not knowing what the other titles will be.

BTW, it's always console war when those who are not users of one platform come into said platform's threads. It's been like that here for years.

Tommy McClain
 
Did I say you were calling it crap?
You said it was spin. So yeah, the implication was that I was down-playing the service for the purposes of anti-MS propaganda and was trying to convince the public not to buy Game Pass because 2020 was going to be a rubbish year for gaming.

Ok Neil Cavuto how do you convince holiday shoppers to buy into a platform this year that has a service that is constantly changing & will get better next year but you can't tell them what all those titles will be right now? I really would like to know what a wise business entrepreneur as yourself would do.
You advertise the service as it is, show what games are coming in the short, mention more games are added every year without implying any limitations. Give numbers on how many games will be available to subscribers, so "access to over 300 games with new content added monthly for only $10 per month" and a montage of the biggest, bestest, loudest, most popular games that people are most like to instantly see value in, without needing them to be educated into the value of exploration of indie and left-field games.

Honestly, how is it better to show 32 games for 2020 without any word that there'll be more than this than to say that since launch, 5+ games a month has been added (was that over a hundred in the year?) including <list biggest and best titles here>? By not being explicit, you leave pundits filling in the blanks with their own expectations of more of the same or better.

Anyway, if you can convince them this year that the future is bright for the service, they are less likely to jump to a different service or platform next year. A year that will see 2 new platforms launch. I think it's a great time to show prospective buyers what the future will bring.
I agree, but if that future isn't (apparently) as strong as the past, you're better of, IMHO, showcasing how strong the service is now.

I would even say it's solid not knowing what the other titles will be.
Where does MS's messaging say there will be other titles? Was that explicit, or are consumers having to work that out for themselves?

BTW, it's always console war when those who are not users of one platform come into said platform's threads. It's been like that here for years.
Rubbish. The vast majority of users here, bias or no bias, engage in discussion about the points rather than the platforms and each other. You can see how platform bias ruins discussions by the god-awful mess that 'console RT' talk became. With that jerk constantly moaning about platform bias gone, it quickly settled down to people talking about the tech and possibilities and limitations. If you don't trust the rest of the community here to discuss fairly, you'll just keep poisoning discussions, both with responses that antagonise and also how you interpret people's ideas.



Incidentally, I've just realised my view of the game offerings was lower than it should be because I confused ID@Xbox with the bottom level tier. That's actually Live Creator's Program, so I thought these titles sounded like filler rather than quality indie titles. So the games themselves aren't as weak as my first impression seeing the list, but I still think, personal opinion, talking corporate messaging, that the message here wasn't a strong one and Game Pass could have been sold a lot more strongly.
 
You advertise the service as it is, show what games are coming in the short, mention more games are added every year without implying any limitations. Give numbers on how many games will be available to subscribers, so "access to over 300 games with new content added monthly for only $10 per month" and a montage of the biggest, bestest, loudest, most popular games that people are most like to instantly see value in, without needing them to be educated into the value of exploration of indie and left-field games.

Honestly, how is it better to show 32 games for 2020 without any word that there'll be more than this than to say that since launch, 5+ games a month has been added (was that over a hundred in the year?) including <list biggest and best titles here>? By not being explicit, you leave pundits filling in the blanks with their own expectations of more of the same or better.

It's because it's a major event that people are paying attention to and doing a larger than normal announcement with some big titles included is a good way to get people to fork over the $1 to try it out for 3 months.

I agree, but if that future isn't (apparently) as strong as the past, you're better of, IMHO, showcasing how strong the service is now.

What's weird to me is knowing what was announced prior so as to be able to make a qualitative comparison to what was just announced, but having no knowledge of what has been announced in between so as to know that these announcements aren't the final word in what will be appearing on the service. It's a unique perspective that I'm not sure many will be viewing these announcements in.

Where does MS's messaging say there will be other titles? Was that explicit, or are consumers having to work that out for themselves?

It's what has consistently happened since the service launched.
 
It's because it's a major event that people are paying attention to and doing a larger than normal announcement with some big titles included is a good way to get people to fork over the $1 to try it out for 3 months.
Better than telling new people about the already present 200 ish games?
It's a unique perspective that I'm not sure many will be viewing these announcements in.
I think that's part of it, that it's not clear who the message is for. Either way, it could still be spelled out a lot better IMO. ;)

It's what has consistently happened since the service launched.
Sure, but messaging needs to be self contained. For all the existing Game Pass users, fine, but if you are trying to reach a new audience, you can't make any assumptions about what they know.

How is it better for MS to not say, "plus many more to come," than leave that message out? How is this "30 games coming 2020" better than "100* games were added in 2019, there are 200* to play, and 2020 is going to be our biggest year yet!"?

*numbers for illustrative purposes. Don't know how many games are in Game Pass as official 362 titles in list has PC and Console games as separate entries.
 
They have other advertising. Every ad does not need to be all things to all people.

Do you often look at Netflix (or prime or other media) ads and think, "well that's the 10 shows currently on the service", nothing there?

They are hoping to get people to sign up for a trial for next to nothing, not sign a 25yr mortgage. They just need 1 or 2 titles to click with someone to get them into a trial. If this ad/announcement didn't do the trick the next one might.
 
Here's a simple thing to know about XBox Game Pass if you don't know: They do continual ads and announcements.

Here is but a sampling of the Xbox Game Pass for Console announcements. There have been larger announcements of major third party games hitting the service in the "available today" fashion so as to not crater their sales before hand.

For current list of 241 Console games on the service -- https://www.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-game-pass/games


December 2018 announcement of Below being available: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/12/14/below-xbox-one-and-xbox-game-pass/

February 2019 highlights (games on it or on it earlier) - https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/02/14/games-to-fall-in-love-with-xbox-game-pass/
  • Gears of War 4
  • Human Fall Flat
  • Laser League
  • Portal Knights
  • Mortal Kombat X
  • Rocket League
  • SpinTires: Mudrunner
  • Forza Horizon 4
  • Sea of Thieves

March 2019 pre-announces Minecraft. [ https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/03/12/minecraft-is-coming-soon-to-xbox-game-pass/ ]


E3 2019 saw 26 games available immediately and Gears 5 Ultimate edition will be for Game Pass Ultimate : https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/06/09/xbox-game-pass-ultimate-now-available/
  • ASTRONEER
  • Batman: Arkham Knight
  • Battle Chasers: Nightwar
  • Borderlands: The Handsome Collection
  • Bridge Constructor Portal
  • Everspace
  • Guacamelee! 2
  • Hollow Knight
  • Lichtspeer: Double Speer Edition
  • Metal Slug X
  • Metro Exodus
  • Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight
  • Moonlighter
  • Neon Chrome
  • Old Man’s Journey
  • Riptide GP: Renegade
  • Riverbond – Available Day One
  • Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun
  • Shenmue 1&2
  • Silence – The Whispered World 2
  • Smoke and Sacrifice
  • SteamWorld Dig 2
  • Supermarket Shriek – Available Day One
  • Thimbleweed Park
  • The Turing Test
  • Wizard of Legend
Announcement June 2019 ( 11 ID@Xbox Games Announced for Xbox Game Pass ) [ https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/06/27/id-xbox-game-pass-2-news-recap/ ]
  • My Time at Portia
  • Bad North
  • Gonner
  • The Banner Saga 3
  • Yoku’s Island Express
  • Worms W.M.D

Announcement for August 2019: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/07/31/xbox-game-pass-august-2019/
  • Ashes Cricket
  • Pandemic
  • Downwell
  • Jackbox Party Pack 2
  • Slay the Spire
Announcements for September 2019 (13 ID@Xbox Games Announced for Xbox Game Pass Across Console and PC) : https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/09/26/id-xbox-game-pass-fall-2019-news/
  • Munchkin
  • Lonely Mountains: Downhill
  • Demon’s Tilt
  • Genesis Noir
  • Minit
  • The Talos Principle
  • Vambrace: Cold Soul
  • Yooka Laylee
  • The Escapists 2
October 2019: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/10...019/?ocid=XGP_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_10.1.1

  • The Outer Worlds
  • World War Z
  • Dishonored 2
  • Yooka LayLee
  • Fallout New Vegas
  • Felix the Reaper
  • Panzer Dragoon Orta
November 2019 XO19 announcements - [ https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/11/14/xbox-game-pass-at-x019/ ] :

That’s a lot of games, so here’s a list of what you can play today:
  • Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition (PC)
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall (Console, coming soon to PC)
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet Edition (PC)
  • LEGO: The Ninjago Movie Videogame (Console)
  • Rage 2 (Console & PC)
  • Remnant: From the Ashes (Console)
  • The Talos Principle (Console & PC)
  • Tracks: The Train Set Game (Console & PC)

And here’s another list of games coming to Xbox Game Pass beginning this holiday and throughout 2020.
  • Carrion (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Cris Tales (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Cyber Shadow (Console & PC)
  • Darksiders III (Console & PC)
  • Double Kick Heroes (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Drake Hollow (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Edge of Eternity (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Final Fantasy franchise (Console & PC)
    • Final Fantasy VII
    • Final Fantasy VIII: Remastered
    • Final Fantasy IX
    • Final Fantasy X: HD Remastered
    • Final Fantasy X-2: HD Remastered
    • Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
    • Final Fantasy XIII
    • Final Fantasy XIII-2
    • Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
    • Final Fantasy XV
  • Forager (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Haven (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • It Lurks Below (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Levelhead (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Life Is Strange 2: Episodes 4 & 5 (Console)
  • My Friend Pedro (Console/PC)
  • Pandemic (PC)
  • PHOGS (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • She Dreams Elsewhere (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • SkateBird (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Streets of Rage 4 (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Scourge Bringer (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • Supraland (Console) – ID@Xbox
  • Tekken 7 (Console)
  • Touhou Luna Nights (Console & PC) – ID@Xbox
  • The Escapists 2 (Console)
  • The Red Lantern (Console) – ID@Xbox
  • The Red Strings Club (PC)
  • The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (Console)
  • Vambrace: Cold Soul (Console & PC)
  • West of Dead (Console & PC)
  • Yakuza franchise (Console & PC)
    • Yakuza 0
    • Yakuza Kiwami
    • Yakuza Kiwami 2
 
Better than telling new people about the already present 200 ish games?

That's not news. Anyone who has a web browser can see what games are available now (edit: as BRiT linked) and decide whether they are interesting or not. This was a reveal of not previously known information. Whether that reveal was good or not is subjective and would depend on whether you found that particular list of games interesting.
 
They have other advertising. Every ad does not need to be all things to all people.

Do you often look at Netflix (or prime or other media) ads and think, "well that's the 10 shows currently on the service", nothing there?

They are hoping to get people to sign up for a trial for next to nothing, not sign a 25yr mortgage. They just need 1 or 2 titles to click with someone to get them into a trial. If this ad/announcement didn't do the trick the next one might.

The reference to Netflix is apt. I think most do regard this service as "Netflix for games" and as such there is a certain understanding of what it is and expectation for how content gets added based on this prior experience.
 
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