Hitbox arcade stick?

[Nesh]

http://shoryuken.com/2012/10/11/how-to-hit-box-tekken-tag-tournament-2-just-frames/

I am not sure how many of you are familiar with the Hitbox arcade controller but I am recently considering purchasing one for my fighting games..

The D-pad is never as fast as a stick (one thump moving on all directions fast is not efficient), and I have noticed that in time as the normal controller ages it performs kind of differently (i.e some of my controllers perform better Just Frames than others even though they are the exact same controllers). The good thing about it is that it is dead accurate on movements that dont require great speed
The arcade stick on the other hand is the fastest input you can get regarding the directional input. But on that there is sometimes a tiny margin of error since the stick is actually a stick placed in the middle of a 360 opening and a slight misdirection may give you a wrong input and a totally different move. If you get punished for that error, you could be simply dead in a high level play

Now this controller seems to bring the good from both worlds. Accuracy and speed.
Has anyone used this on high level play?

 

[Grall]

That thing looks completely MAD. Only a pro fighting game player (or, heh, pro bullet hell SHMUP player) could be expected to use that thing with any degree of competency.

 

[idsn6]

At first it looked like this would be worse for 360s and 720s, but the other videos in that channel have covered that. Seems pretty good.

 

[Nesh]

That thing looks completely MAD. Only a pro fighting game player (or, heh, pro bullet hell SHMUP player) could be expected to use that thing with any degree of competency.

But are you sure or is it just based on a gut feeling because it looks unconventional?

 

[Nesh]

At first it looked like this would be worse for 360s and 720s, but the other videos in that channel have covered that. Seems pretty good.

Yeah. Looks pretty fast at the execution too. It turns out this requires the directional buttons to be perceived as button inputs rather than simply directions in order to get the intuition behind the controller's logic.
The "up" placement appears odd. But after watching when the "up" input is pressed it is should no longer be viewed as a directional sequence especially during the 360s and 720s. Its just a button that has to be pressed at a particular moment.

I suspect this could be a very powerful tool. There is this Tekken high player I met a few years ago, and I accidentally found him online. Didnt know it was him at first. I could read his signature tactics from last time so I asked him and it was him, and it was. Only this time he came faster and pulled off more pressure against me.
He could do some amazing feats that require extremely fast input. So fast that it wouldnt leave enough window for me to recover from some moves especially with frame traps (i.e kazuya's fff+LK). D-pad was out of the question. All just frames and wavedashes he performed were perfect. Not a single miss. Howarang's Sky Rocket Just Frame is one of the hardest to do especially when having to deal with lag online. But nope. 100% success rate
Well....I suspect he was using this controller. He does a lot of research for his play. And I found now that he was "liking" this controller over facebook in that very link I posted. If he found out that controller I bet he would have ordered it. I suspect this is the culprit

 

[Davros]

There is also this, but its not cheap (ps: it has a metal base)
http://www.computerplus.uk.com/pgPr..._Catz_Gaming_Pad_Cable_Headphone_USB_Xbox_360

 

[Grall]

But are you sure or is it just based on a gut feeling because it looks unconventional?

It's very unintuitively designed, it's possible, probably easy to push say, both forwards and backwards at the same time. The up button is located under the thumb, which is physically located below the down button, and so on. It's fairly obvious really you'd need a very good sense of coordination and motor skills to be able to use something like that not just effectively, but at a competition pro level. If you're less than ideally skilled, you'll do WORSE than with a normal joystick, not better...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I completely disagree. The concept is an excellent disassociation with a preconception of directional input to enable far more accurate input for a specific game genre. Sure, the 'up' and 'down' buttons seem misplaced, but that's only because they are so named. If the controls were instead red, green, blue and yellow buttons, and in game you push red to jump and blue to duck, there'd be no intrinsic association with colour and intent to get confused over. Now the choice of up and down are to aid understanding as a natural ergonomic fit (down for duck, up for jump, relating thumb/stick motion to avatar motion), but I'm guessing the designers are aware of application within their particular game and found that there was a benefit to having 'up' on thumb. It would have been an easy switch to make during prototype. Hell, you could open up the box and swap the buttons round if it's that important. It's certainly going to need new skills to learn, but if you're buying one of these it's to be a top performer and the skill investment is a given. Like buying a Dvorak keyboard to type faster - you'll need to relearn your touch typing skills which is a significant investment, but you get the rewards at the end. This controller isn't about being intuitive, but fast. And considering the controller actions aren't intuitive (down, pause, down and forwards and action to execute a particular move), you don't lose anything from the conventional stick input. Ever action in game is a learnt series of hand movements rather than intuitively executed - this controller just changes the movements you have to learn.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

This hitbox looks quite interesting and would probably help me in Tekken quite a bit. I have to admit that I can't basically use regular arcade sticks. I'm so biased (if that's the right word) using my right hand that my left hand simply doesn't have the necessary precision to use a stick with a satisfactory degree. It feels just as unintuitive as doing pretty much anything else with my left hand. Moving only thumb or fingers work well, but once the wrist or more comes into play, I basically turn in to a retard...

 

[kache]

Years old now. I've been following them since the beginning, and I would not buy their product. I would make or ask someone to make me a custom one.
The reason is quite simple: they put a "fairness lock" into the board, that overrides the game response when 2 opposite directional inputs are pressed.

 

[idsn6]

The reason is quite simple: they put a "fairness lock" into the board, that overrides the game response when 2 opposite directional inputs are pressed.

That sounds like a positive to me, depending on how it's implemented. Current games might have strange responses if fed input that would be physically impossible on normal controllers. If holding down opposite directions in Tekken let you dash forward and block at the same time, or glitched out altogether, that would be bad.

I remember trying to use a keyboard to play an emulated fighting game. It wan't pleasant, particularly rolling through diagonals. Independent buttons like on the Hitbox will definitely need some training for that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Simultaneous opposite directions are easily achieved by using two fingers (middle and fore). Sit the controller on your knee. You have to do that on the shape buttons for some actions (excluding shoulder button mappings).

 

[kache]

That sounds like a positive to me, depending on how it's implemented. Current games might have strange responses if fed input that would be physically impossible on normal controllers. If holding down opposite directions in Tekken let you dash forward and block at the same time, or glitched out altogether, that would be bad.

I remember trying to use a keyboard to play an emulated fighting game. It wan't pleasant, particularly rolling through diagonals. Independent buttons like on the Hitbox will definitely need some training for that.

The point is that it should be something the game manages (and most game already do), not something the board should FORCE on the player.

 

[idsn6]

Simultaneous opposite directions are easily achieved by using two fingers (middle and fore). Sit the controller on your knee. You have to do that on the shape buttons for some actions (excluding shoulder button mappings).

I haven't used any D-pads or sticks that allow simultaneous opposite directions, at least not first party. Maybe that's changed.

The point is that it should be something the game manages (and most game already do), not something the board should FORCE on the player.

I still don't see the negative in terms of gameplay, but if it's really a problem certainly a custom version can be put together.

 

[kache]

I still don't see the negative in terms of gameplay, but if it's really a problem certainly a custom version can be put together.

That's why I said that I wouldn't accept a normal Hitbox, but a custom one following a similar concept why not.
I really like the concept in and by itself. Allows for a big amount of flexibility.


EDIT: the fun thing is when you change the button layout and add a select to plink everything.

 

[Davros]

I remember trying to use a keyboard to play an emulated fighting game. It wan't pleasant, particularly rolling through diagonals. Independent buttons like on the Hitbox will definitely need some training for that.

Ive played some fighting games on a keyboard and it was great, just program all the combo's into the keys and bobs your uncle

 

[Nesh]

Years old now. I've been following them since the beginning, and I would not buy their product. I would make or ask someone to make me a custom one.
The reason is quite simple: they put a "fairness lock" into the board, that overrides the game response when 2 opposite directional inputs are pressed.

But neither an arcade stick nor a d-pad enable for simultaneous press of opposite directions.
So I dont see why this is a donwisde for it. A "fairness lock" is just what it is. Making the hitbox fair. Under this logic a custom hitbox is better than any hitbox, arcade stick and a d-pad.
You say it shouldnt be forced on the player but the ability to be able to press at two opposite directions is something that shouldnt exist in a fighting game anyways unless the arcade sticks and d-pads evolve to be able to do that and fighting games are created to accommodate that

 

[Davros]

surely if you press 2 direction buttons at the same time they cancel each other out, thats what happens on the pc where you can do that sort of thing

 

[kache]

surely if you press 2 direction buttons at the same time they cancel each other out, thats what happens on the pc where you can do that sort of thing

No, forward overrides backwards, and up overrides down in the hitbox, unless they changed it since then.

 

[V3]

Isn't that thing like playing fighting games using a keyboard ? I got quite proficient at using keyboard for fighters, but I still prefer stick by far. It's just more fun. But I suppose if you have carpal tunnel using stick this is a good alternative.