HDMI output for X360

[Iron Tiger]

Why do MS execs keep insisting that there's going to be an HDMI cable for the Xbox 360 "when the market demands it"? Isn't it certain that the 360 cannot output a digital video through its multi-out port, or was that simply internet speculation?

 

[kyleb]

who said HDMI would ever work on current 360s?

 

[Iron Tiger]

who said HDMI would ever work on current 360s?

A lot of people on the net seem to assume as much, because it can easily be presumed from the quotes of some MS representatives.
Joystiq
And the rather ambiguous quote:

All those connections (composite, component, s-video and VGA) have one thing in common: they carry the video signal in an analog format. What about digital connections such DVI or HDMI? Will there be A/V packs with DVI and/or HDMI connections? If not, will you consider offering that in the future?

Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 will support HD component video output, which is compatible with nearly every HD-ready TV on the market today. We’re poised to hit the sweet spot of the HD market at launch and as the market matures, and we will provide an HDMI for our customers when it makes sense. The reality is, you don’t need HDMI for HD gaming.

Then there's the blatant misrepresentation of products that are supposedly an HDMI cable for the 360:
Engadget
Lik Sang
Pelican

And you need only browse a few console forums to see that a lot of people are under the presumption that they 360 they already have will be able to connect to their TVs via DVI/HDMI whenever MS decides to sell a cable for it.

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, I don't think anyone from MS ever said HDMI could work on current 360s.

 

[Acert93]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=804926&postcount=25

my guess is the 360 will get an HDMI connection sooner or later.

This suspicions have been confirmed by two distinct sources. I don't know when or how (new SKU?) the 360 will get HDMI, but it is in the works. The recent pictures of a Xbox 360 motherboard with HDMI are not fakes.

HDMI is coming to the Xbox 360, eventually, in one form or another.

 

[kyleb]

Ah sure, I just highly doubt it will ever come to our current 360s.

 

[AlNom]

Hmm... any guesses as to when? After the move to 65nm?

 

[Acert93]

Ah sure, I just highly doubt it will ever come to our current 360s.

Yeah, I lean that way as well. I don't have any inside information on this from my sources other than HDMI has been seen on Xbox 360 Motherboards, so they were not an accessory. So it is not ruling it out, but both sources (+ the Engaget shot) all point toward it being a feature on future 360s.

I also seem to remember a statement via ATI that the scalar chip is analog, and not digital, so without some form of reverse-conversion I don't believe (could be wrong) that current Xbox 360 SKUs are even capable of outputting a digital signal. So you have VGA, Component, etc... all analog.

So while I can confirm HDMI is coming to the Xbox 360, I don't know when or how. I will keep everyone posted

 

[expletive]

I also seem to remember a statement via ATI that the scalar chip is analog, and not digital

Scaling is a mathematical algorithm so the chip is digital, i think the question is that if its built in such a way that it MUST convert the scaled image to analog before sending it to the display. I dont recall seeing confirmation one way or another. I do think more evidence is mounting towards a high-end A/V SKU though...

 

[Graham]

FiringSquad article:

During the Q&A session following the prepared remarks, Walker said that they are still discussing what will happen if the movie companies decide to move to HDMI inputs being required for HD-DVD for keeping copyright protection for their movie disk
...
[Walker also said] they also considering releasing an A/V cord that will have some kind of HDMI adaptor

I do see a potential huge benefit for 360 games. Given HDMI 1.3 supports high bitdepth colour, and also given many 360 games already render at FP10 internally...
Is the 30bit colour output 1.3 supports integer or float?

There really isn't any comparison between a proper HDR signal on a led back-lit HDR tv. The difference is simply amazing.

[edit] Ok this is just my wild fantasy so we never have to see a bad bloom filter again

 

[expletive]

FiringSquad article:



I do see a potential huge benefit for 360 games. Given HDMI 1.3 supports high bitdepth colour, and also given many 360 games already render at FP10 internally...
Is the 30bit colour output 1.3 supports integer or float?

There really isn't any comparison between a proper HDR signal on a led back-lit HDR tv. The difference is simply amazing.

[edit] Ok this is just my wild fantasy so we never have to see a bad bloom filter again

Thats the first time i've seen someone from MS mention the possibility of an HDMI cable.

 

[TrungGap]

Thats the first time i've seen someone from MS mention the possibility of an HDMI cable.

Unless it's a direct quote, I'm guessing it's wishful thinking on the writer's part. While I don't doubt MS will release a 360 with HDMI, but it surely won't be an adapter that compatible with existing 360. I think it's just wishful thinking on many current 360 owners.

 

[kyleb]

Yeah, that isn't a quote.

 

[Bohdy]

Scaling is a mathematical algorithm so the chip is digital, i think the question is that if its built in such a way that it MUST convert the scaled image to analog before sending it to the display. I dont recall seeing confirmation one way or another. I do think more evidence is mounting towards a high-end A/V SKU though...

I remember reading that the scaler in the 360 was fully analog. I assume that scaling is also possible in the analog domain.

 

[chachi]

I remember reading that the scaler in the 360 was fully analog. I assume that scaling is also possible in the analog domain.

Just because you read something doesn't make it true; it's a chip not a bunch of vacuum tubes, of course the scaling is going to be digital. The question is whether they provide any digital output to their a/v plug or if everything is analog. My guess would be that it's analog since otherwise they would have released an HDMI cable by now to soak up another few bucks from the people who want to use one.

 

[expletive]

I remember reading that the scaler in the 360 was fully analog. I assume that scaling is also possible in the analog domain.

Scaling is math, it has to be done with numbers, i.e. on a digital signal.

Unless it's a direct quote, I'm guessing it's wishful thinking on the writer's part. While I don't doubt MS will release a 360 with HDMI, but it surely won't be an adapter that compatible with existing 360. I think it's just wishful thinking on many current 360 owners.

Walker gave some very vague hints about what might be in the works for future Xbox 360 controllers and accessories in his closing remarks and in the Q&A session that followed. Walker said that the company is considering launching hard drives with more disk space than the relatively small current 20 GB device. They are also considering releasing an A/V cord that will have some kind of HDMI adaptor. Walker also hinted that they are looking at text messaging more closely for future products (maybe an Xbox 360 controller with a QUERTY keyboard perhaps?).

If Walker didnt actually say it i wouldnt call the writer a victim of 'wishful thinking' i would call him delusional.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Scaling is math, it has to be done with numbers, i.e. on a digital signal.

If that were true I wouldn't be able to get enlarged prints from my 35mm negatives!

A digital model is just one way to model data for processing, and it's quite possible to use other models and other processes, though in this case digital makes the most sense.

 

[expletive]

If that were true I wouldn't be able to get enlarged prints from my 35mm negatives!

A digital model is just one way to model data for processing, and it's quite possible to use other models and other processes, though in this case digital makes the most sense.

If you can find me a video scaler, and in this context that means taking a video signal in at one resolution and converting it to another for output, that is 'analog', i'd be glad to learn something new today.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you can find me a video scaler, and in this context that means taking a video signal in at one resolution and converting it to another for output, that is 'analog', i'd be glad to learn something new today.

I dunno if one exists, and wasn't replying as such. Just that scaling does not exist solely in the domain of maths.
The point 'Scaling is math, it has to be done with numbers, i.e. on a digital signal.' is not true. Even if an analogue scaling chip doesn't exist, that's not because it's impossible to do scaling with analogue sources. The fact an analogue CRT can scale to different resolutions proves that point.

 

[Ventresca]

If that were true I wouldn't be able to get enlarged prints from my 35mm negatives!

Hi Shifty , you are wrong on this, to enlarge a 35mm negative the negative gets digital scanned to be converted into an hi resolution digital image, and then printed, so the scaling itself always happens in the digital domain.

Hope this help,

Bye,
Ventresca.