Has a video game ever made you cry? (spoilers)
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Phil said:london-boy said:
I disagree. Videogames are just a very different in which they manage to stimulate the player... it doesn't necessarely have to stimulate the imagination any less...
Everyone has his own opinions. i personally think that, as good as the movies or the games are, an experience like reading LOTR (all of it) will NEVER EVER be reached by something i can "watch" on the screen, simply because my head, my imagination, pictures how the characters, how the environments, how the movements are from what i read on the book, while "seeing" it on screen is just "seeing an interpretation of the guy who made the movie/games".
of course u MIGHT have more "fun" playing the game, and some people might be fascinated by the beauty of the movies, but the "experience" is just different. letting your mind make your own interpretation of a book is much more "fun" and constructive than watching a movie/playing the game.
Well video games are one of the few mediums that combine almost all facets of art into one intereactive experience.. written narrative, graphic arts, sound/music, voice acting, programming (if you buy the code=art thing) direction, etc.
However, like all media, it can either be engineered to be 'deep', or as a mass market product.
Games like Ico and Panzer Dragoon Orta are much closer to the 'art' label than the typical game to come out of an EA studio, and I think you'd all agree.
edit: sorry for harbouring this thread hijack!
However, like all media, it can either be engineered to be 'deep', or as a mass market product.
Games like Ico and Panzer Dragoon Orta are much closer to the 'art' label than the typical game to come out of an EA studio, and I think you'd all agree.
edit: sorry for harbouring this thread hijack!
zurich said:
yes, i agree that some game's narrative aspects can approach those found in books. but 99.9% of games (and movies for that matters) do not care or have no real depth in their stories.
ICO was a wonderful experience because the whole package screamed ART from every pixel. the lack of music for most of the game, IMO, helped a lot to set it apart and put it "up there" in the artistic-games Olympus. personally i do not think PDO can approach ICO's level of artistic experience simply because it tries too hard to look so damn good. and it does it quite successfully. it's too Pop if u know what i mean... ICO is abstract (even though it does represent reality to a certain extent, it can still be considered "abstract") and stylised enough in its interpretation of environment and characters that one can't help but LOVE everything about the game. loads more to write, but not enough time..
london-boy said:
I agree LOTR is a masterpiece of writing, just like many other very good books as well. What makes LOTR the masterpeace of writing though, is all thanks to the writers ability to give the reader the information which he combines with his imagination. Movies and other sort of media are different, though are they necessarely worse? Writers use words, movie directors use pictures and music, music artists music etc - it's just different.
You named one good example, though I never played ICO, I do know that the game does manage to trigger some very strong emotions. How's that possible? It's the directors/artists ability that can make it such a worthwhile and powerful experience - may it be a book, movie, music or a video game.
Danny,
Play through PDO first The cutscenes are very moving and very well directed. Not so much worthy of a University grade analysis paper a la Lazy8s But still very meaningful nonetheless.
IMO the most emotional part in the game was after the Dragon is injured and Orta has to nurse it back to health, thats before the 'running' level, where your Dragon is too hurt to fly
Play through PDO first
The cutscenes are very moving and very well directed. Not so much worthy of a University grade analysis paper a la Lazy8s But still very meaningful nonetheless.IMO the most emotional part in the game was after the Dragon is injured and Orta has to nurse it back to health, thats before the 'running' level, where your Dragon is too hurt to fly
RaolinDarksbane
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How can anyone not mention Valkyrie Profile? That game was a tear jerker, one tragic deaths after another. Nearly everyone in the game was a tragic figure.
And then there's Xenogear, but I get the impression that some people loathe it because of disc 2.
And then there's Xenogear, but I get the impression that some people loathe it because of disc 2.
Play through PDO first
yeah that was the point of my initial post..
IMO the most emotional part in the game was after the Dragon is injured and Orta has to nurse it back to health, thats before the 'running' level, where your Dragon is too hurt to fly
ok, so, it's too hurt to fly but he can "run"??? so much for coherence
just kidding....i mean, as i said, PDO is a feast for the eyes, although i never "played" it (not like i'm missing much but i digress), still it's no ART. sorry guys. ICO is "close" to ART. and PLEASE, Sony, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE dont kill the sequel!!!! DON'T listen to people saying they want more action!!! DON'T make it "just another action-adventure" game!!!!! we have LOADS of weapons to choose from in Jak2 and R&C, leave ICO the way it is!!! just give us more of it!!!
London-boy, you got the point of what I was doing, if not the intention. Embelishment over some nice presentation in a game says nothing about its ability to be powerful or thought-provoking. This topic was starting to drift by mixing up the cinematic achievements of games like ZOE2 and MGS2 with the elements that can actually move people to emotion, like moral themes and perspectives. While Panzer Dragoon Orta truly is powerful through its expressiveness and well directed to be provoking, my writing was plain terrible - I’d have to describe what I wrote as “pretentiously convoluted†to do it justice!
Both mediums, books and movies, have inherent advantages over one another for narrative. Words take the boundlessness of imagination and provide an interpretation that’s personal with respect to each of us. For the creation of ideas in storytelling, this gives books more potential than movies. Movies, on the other hand, give definite form to story elements. This is inherently more effective at conveying the actuality of something, as, for example, there would be no interpretation of what a space shuttle launch looks like more authentic than actually seeing it.
london-boy:
A single painting, picture, or piece of artwork can inspire a thousand words or more. While games meld various forms of artistry like this together, some games even seem to express a vision with their cohesive whole beyond merely entertainment. If what we define as art is the creative expression of something, then games like Rez, Jet Set Radio, and PDO make for a compelling argument.
Both mediums, books and movies, have inherent advantages over one another for narrative. Words take the boundlessness of imagination and provide an interpretation that’s personal with respect to each of us. For the creation of ideas in storytelling, this gives books more potential than movies. Movies, on the other hand, give definite form to story elements. This is inherently more effective at conveying the actuality of something, as, for example, there would be no interpretation of what a space shuttle launch looks like more authentic than actually seeing it.
london-boy:
By your definition, Rez is much more fit to be art than ICO because Rez truly is a work of abstract and stylized interpretation. And this definition does nothing to exclude or even minimize Panzer, for all the workings of its world and mechanics of its play take you on an interpretative journey about the evolution of mankind (rise and fall of empires, consequences of technology and our development).
A single painting, picture, or piece of artwork can inspire a thousand words or more. While games meld various forms of artistry like this together, some games even seem to express a vision with their cohesive whole beyond merely entertainment. If what we define as art is the creative expression of something, then games like Rez, Jet Set Radio, and PDO make for a compelling argument.
The fact that PDO works so well on a visual level means that it can more accurately express the stuff that the designers want as actual reference points (the scaly, reptilian skin on the dragonmares; the awe-inspiring laser lightshow of an aerial war). And considering the pace of action is blood-stirring while the challenge is deep with flight and attack options, I’d say you certainly are missing a lot by not playing!! With this one Box Game feature it has, the replay value is so good, too...
london-boy said:ok, so, it's too hurt to fly but he can "run"??? so much for coherence
Yeah, it's wings are damaged. Wings are a a lot thinner and flimsier than thick scaly legs. Coherence?
I think you should actually play it before confidently passing jusdgement on it. Even just seeing it through (something you don't appear to have done either) isn't enough. You have to actually play a game to really feel it (something I'm sure you can appreciate form Ico), especially when the feel of what you're controlling is at the core of the whole experience.
On a more general note, I don't think it's terribly useful trying to draw a line where something is "art" and where something isn't in what is basically a creative indusrty anyway. All games have some artistic value, but some games have more emphasis placed on said artistry than others. And of course, different levels of talent and inspiration in those responsible for creating it and managing its direction and integrity have a big effect on the outcome too.
If I had to pick any game out there where the artistry of the game was at the core of the experience, it would be the Panzer Dragoon games above anything else that I've ever seen. And that includes Ico.
They both take different approaches to drawing in and holding the player, which is perhaps what some people (on both sides of the fan equation) mistake for one being art, and the other not.
function said:london-boy said:ok, so, it's too hurt to fly but he can "run"??? so much for coherence
Yeah, it's wings are damaged. Wings are a a lot thinner and flimsier than thick scaly legs. Coherence?
I think you should actually play it before confidently passing jusdgement on it. Even just seeing it through (something you don't appear to have done either) isn't enough. You have to actually play a game to really feel it (something I'm sure you can appreciate form Ico), especially when the feel of what you're controlling is at the core of the whole experience.
On a more general note, I don't think it's terribly useful trying to draw a line where something is "art" and where something isn't in what is basically a creative indusrty anyway. All games have some artistic value, but some games have more emphasis placed on said artistry than others. And of course, different levels of talent and inspiration in those responsible for creating it and managing its direction and integrity have a big effect on the outcome too.
If I had to pick any game out there where the artistry of the game was at the core of the experience, it would be the Panzer Dragoon games above anything else that I've ever seen. And that includes Ico.
They both take different approaches to drawing in and holding the player, which is perhaps what some people (on both sides of the fan equation) mistake for one being art, and the other not.
i was just kidding!!! i just pictured in my mind "something with wings".. and if the wings hurt so much it cant fly, then they must still hurt when it's running right.... i mean only because u brake ur shoulder instead of your leg, u still wouldnt run right, cuz ur shoulder would hurt like hell...
anyway, games arent art. thats it. thats my very objective conclusion.
they wont be until they are boring and art critics can analyse them in detail using their 10 dollars words and write books about them. hold on thats what Lazy8s does!!! spooky...
they wont be until one of its makers die, to then become a legend.
they wont be until they're just "living room" material
they wont be until they're "just games", in that they are controlled with a controller and played through a TV.
they won't be until they are easily accessible by everyone.
(just some thoughts i thought i would share with u)
notAFanB said:
i was just kidding.. for the most part...
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