Halo 3 not impressing me right now...

[Rangers]

The texture needs a lot more wear and dirt, paint should be flaking from the edges and revealing the raw silverish metal underneath, the dirt should have more contrast, the speculars could be replaced with reflection and a more complex shader, and so on. I understand Bungie's desire for their own unique art style and they shouldn't make Halo3 look like Gears - but worn metal has a look that's been established in several decades of commercial art, and they should put some more effort into their lead character's textures.

Cant agree, that's not Halo's style. That's Gears of War's style. What you're describing is basically "dilapidated" and I dont want that for Halo. The graphics could be much better without any of that.

I think the game's graphics aren't that great either, but here's the real issue, I'm already bored with what next-gen can do. We're already hitting the limits. Halo 3 just reflects that fact. If you were to say try to pick out what next gen games look better, they all tend to be slow moving, highly detailed affairs with closed in arena's. Gears, Rainbow Six, etc. Halo simply cant have closed in arenas as a franchise, nor would you want it too, but that's going to hurt the graphics.

But as I've said a million times, after Halo 2 for the most part looked exactly like Halo 1, I lost all faith in Bungie to push hardware, so I totally expected Halo 3 to look like this.
________
xNAUGHTYNAOMIx

 

[pakotlar]

Honestly, I think the screenshots look awesome for the state the game is in (aka alpha, MP behind SP). Compared to Halo 2, the chief looks much better, as do textures and reflections (probably some detail maps on textures, because apparently diffuse is placeholder from Halo2 right now). What I want to see in the new Halo is better lighting, ala Crysis, and real-time self shadowing. We were promised that in Halo 2 and what we got were shitty projection maps. I want high res shadow maps and self-shadowing (again like Crysis, or 3dMark06 snow test). If I don't see that stuff in the final build I'm going to be dissapointed. At least give me gears quality shadowing.

 

[Skrying]

Its In Alpha!

 

[AlNom]

Huh? What trailer?

All I remember was the e3 trailer and, they looked exactly like that since that was the game.

He means the original August 2002 teaser and the E3 2003 SP demo which used high res textures (different textures even in the original 2002 video) and an abundance of self-shadowing stencil shadows.

What I want to see in the new Halo is better lighting, ala Crysis, and real-time self shadowing. We were promised that in Halo 2 and what we got were shitty projection maps.

Actually, we got heavy use of the latter, and sparse use of the former. There were certain lights, mostly in "Heretic" and "Oracle" that cast self-shadows. Very few instances though.

I want high res shadow maps and self-shadowing (again like Crysis, or 3dMark06 snow test). If I don't see that stuff in the final build I'm going to be dissapointed. At least give me gears quality shadowing.

Well, we are looking at alpha screenshots here, for multiplayer too.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

If you were to say try to pick out what next gen games look better, they all tend to be slow moving, highly detailed affairs with closed in arena's. Gears, Rainbow Six, etc. Halo simply cant have closed in arenas as a franchise, nor would you want it too, but that's going to hurt the graphics.

Painting a better texture with more interesting visuals won't affect what the game engine can do. It's a purely artistic question, and a boring texture isn't really a matter of style either. They do have a lot of detail in the normal map, and the textures are high res too, just not interesting enough, your eyes don't have anything to feed upon.

 

[one]

Most of the textures are supposed to be placeholders.. So it'll definately improve.

Can they improve from this super-hires texture for a 3840x2160 shot?
http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1353/full-res/1164173174.jpg

 

[Rangers]

He means the original August 2002 teaser and the E3 2003 SP demo which used high res textures (different textures even in the original 2002 video) and an abundance of self-shadowing stencil shadows.

Link?
________
Bagira cam

 

[AlNom]

Link?

http://www.bungie.net/Games/Halo2/page.aspx?section=AudioVideo&subsection=GameVideos&page=1

First two videos.

If you somehow don't notice the difference (), you can check out the screenshot galleries.

In the E3 2003 demo, there's a weird issue with the video they have there. The frame-rate appears pretty bad, but in the Halo CE Soundtrack with the bonus DVD, they have the same video, and it looks a whole-lot smoother (except during the last 2 minutes). Kinda weird.

 

[Rangers]

http://www.bungie.net/Games/Halo2/page.aspx?section=AudioVideo&subsection=GameVideos&page=1

First two videos.

If you somehow don't notice the difference (), you can check out the screenshot galleries.

First is clearly a cutscene. I've seen much, much better done in millions of games. If it's not in Halo 2 it certainly could be.

Second looks like Halo 2 to me. That's the game.

There are no screens of the second trailer, which is the only one that could conceivably not be a cutscene/CG. That is the game. There's no use debating screens anyway, the vid is right there. It's the game.
________
Republica

 

[AlNom]

First is clearly a cutscene. I've seen much, much better done in millions of games. If it's not in Halo 2 it certainly could be.

If you played the game, there is a very similar sequence after the first level. There is a clear drop in quality; environment textures took quite a hit in the final version.

After they realized the problems with using stencil shadows on everything, they decided on switching to shadow buffers and projected shadows. They made it clear that there were issues with getting the E3 2003 demo to appear as it did (even if it was realtime). They explain this on the DVD.

There is no doubt this cut-scene's "quality" could have been done in the final game since it was run on an Xbox. It was just the consistency they were going for. i.e. no stencil shadows. The armour is clearly using different textures.

Second looks like Halo 2 to me. That's the game.

Minus all the heavy use of the self shadows.

There are no screens of the second trailer, which is the only one that could conceivably not be a cutscene/CG. That is the game. There's no use debating screens anyway, the vid is right there. It's the game.

There are... you just didn't look. Page 2:
http://www.bungie.net/Games/Halo2/Gallery.aspx?Gallery=Screenshots&page=2

Again, the biggest difference is in the all-around use of self-shadows via stencil. That's the thing most people were clamming about.

There is no debate as to whether it could have been done as it was played in realtime at E3 2003. Again Bungie (Joe Staten actually) explains there were issues with using the particular shadows. There was a brief scene between Jason Jones and Marcus Lehto showing their apparent frustration with getting the E3 demo to work properly. i.e. time invested for the demo extended to a whole game wasn't *particularly* good.

They don't have a shot of the cockpit sequence in the beginning, but as it appears in the game too, there is a clear drop in texture resolution. The sarge and the interiors of the dropship were most noticeable to me when the game came out.

 

[pakotlar]

He means the original August 2002 teaser and the E3 2003 SP demo which used high res textures (different textures even in the original 2002 video) and an abundance of self-shadowing stencil shadows.



Actually, we got heavy use of the latter, and sparse use of the former. There were certain lights, mostly in "Heretic" and "Oracle" that cast self-shadows. Very few instances though.



Well, we are looking at alpha screenshots here, for multiplayer too.

Oh really? I didn't know about that Alstrong, guess I should've played through more of the game (I didn't really like the game tbh, but that is a seperate issue). I guess its like the sweet ground texture normal mapping on that one outdoor night map via flashlightt.

Yeah, and I understand we're looking at alpha version multiplayer I'm just a bit worried after seeing how Halo 2 turned out. The E3 2003 trailer was what it could've been, and seeing early Halo 3 stuff missing the same stuff that Halo 2 did (aka nice lighting/self shadows) excaberated that fear. Np, I can't wait for more material. I think i'm going to pick up a 360 soon. So many nice games coming out for it.

 

[Acert93]

Its In Alpha!

And it better stay there until it looks a lot better.

 

[AlNom]

Oh really? I didn't know about that Alstrong, guess I should've played through more of the game (I didn't really like the game tbh, but that is a seperate issue). I guess its like the sweet ground texture normal mapping on that one outdoor night map via flashlightt.

If you are interested in checking it out, the lights casting those self-shadows are most notable in those two levels. Sometimes I just stop and push one of those elites into the light so I can see it. The model and texture work on the elites are really highlighted there with the self shadowing and the bloom effects there. The only issue is that the shadows are pretty aliased.

There is a brief moment in the elevator at the end of level one and in the following cutscene with the self-shadows. For the rest of the game, they don't really use those type of shadows. In Delta Halo, you'd maybe notice them briefly when getting through those underwater passageways (the hallways with the glass). There are a couple of short passages in High Charity between hallways too that get you the same thing... but yeah.. that's pretty much it.

(btw, I might have contradicted myself with the texture work, but I was referring more towards the environment textures for the particular scenes that were reused from the E3 2003 trailer in the final game.)

Yeah, and I understand we're looking at alpha version multiplayer I'm just a bit worried after seeing how Halo 2 turned out. The E3 2003 trailer was what it could've been, and seeing early Halo 3 stuff missing the same stuff that Halo 2 did (aka nice lighting/self shadows) excaberated that fear.

No doubt it's a worry that everyone (who cares) has. For multiplayer, I don't really care too much about the graphics, but the SP... well... I think they just need to not show anything at all, including that recent one that Sketch picked. Don't show it unless it's final!

Np, I can't wait for more material. I think i'm going to pick up a 360 soon. So many nice games coming out for it.

I would too, but I have no time to play until next summer!

 

[LunchBox]

I think I'd rather have the developers concentrate on the terrain than the player models...
The Master Chief's suit is simple, so I don't expect them to do much...
I want variety in the terrain since I'm sure I'll be playing multiplayer anyways

 

[blakjedi]

I think I'd rather have the developers concentrate on the terrain than the player models...
The Master Chief's suit is simple, so I don't expect them to do much...
I want variety in the terrain since I'm sure I'll be playing multiplayer anyways

I want the lighting to be spectacular. I am a lighting guy! I want great atmospherics caustics etc...

 

[A176]

I do not believe (read: imo) the issue here is technical, may it be code related or asset related. The first thing that popping into my head when I noticed the not-so-big-jump from Halo 2 was that they've reached (found?) their artistic plateau for the series. The way they've designed the characters, environments, or even weapons, they've found themselves into a somewhat cartoony niche. I mean, even the way the game plays is somewhat cartoony, and so perhaps they've having difficulty trying to deviate from that.

If anyone can remember some of the promo shots from Halo 2, specifically the one that can best be described as "Desert Storm Master Chief", is what I hope Halo 3 can end up mimicking.

 

[AlNom]

If anyone can remember some of the promo shots from Halo 2, specifically the one that can best be described as "Desert Storm Master Chief", is what I hope Halo 3 can end up mimicking.

Just to clarify (for anyone), it is a piece of art, not a screenshot.

Here it is (800x600):

http://www.bungie.net/images/games/halo2/wallpapers/BrigadeDamaged-800.jpg

I think this is exactly the sort of worn out detail that Laa Yosh was wanting while fitting in with the Halo-style: bullet dents, scratches everywhere, paint scraped off...

 

[Qroach]

Why was there a need to even create this thread?

All the media that has seen the game has explicitly stated the lighting is missing altogether, the art is using place holders textures, and that the graphics aren't anywhere near to final. To say it's not impressing you when it's finished is one thing, but anyone that was really interested in it before hand would have known that what we see now is not final.

 

[blakjedi]

Why was there a need to even create this thread?

All the media that has seen the game has explicitly stated the lighting is missing altogether, the art is using place holders textures, and that the graphics aren't anywhere near to final. To say it's not impressing you when it's finished is one thing, but anyone that was really interested in it before hand would have known that what we see now is not final.

I guess for me, i'm not really liking how they are promoting and showing off the game.... AFter an awesome trailer I have questions as to why they bother distributing these lame photo shots at all, or why in heaven's name they would have an open public beta of MP somewhere between 6 and 8 months before launch. This is supposed to be Halo after all... better that they keep quiet and spring something spectacular on us rather than this.

 

[AlNom]

I guess for me, i'm not really liking how they are promoting and showing off the game.... AFter an awesome trailer I have questions as to why they bother distributing these lame photo shots at all, or why in heaven's name they would have an open public beta of MP somewhere between 6 and 8 months before launch. This is supposed to be Halo after all... better that they keep quiet and spring something spectacular on us rather than this.

I'm sure they wouldn't have released anything unless asked. Even that SP shot was something that MS PR wanted.

When the MGS PR team asked me to give them a new image for an upcoming issue of Newsweek magazine, this is what we came up with. It's intentionally not meant to really reveal anything - we just wanted to give a glimpse of the latest Master Chief model and I thought the level that environment artist Frank Capezutto was working on provided a great backdrop.

Funny how he gave the full name of the environment artist.