Go, Lance!
- Thread starter Joe DeFuria
- Start date
ninelven said:
how does that compare to indurain ? I always saw indurain as the greatest ....
w.r.t. armstrong / competing in other races . . well it *is* a factor he runs less risk of being injured , he only has to peak at one point in the season , etc . however surely other races could do this ? in fact compare this with marathon runners, they *do* quite specifically only race a number of races a year..
-dave-
the best bit about armstrong is that he has had to compete on most of the tours it's never really been easy . he's also been bloody lucky which is always the mark of a champion
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
Crisidelm said:
That's my point, Mercx rode everthing, and won (nearly) everything there was to win, Lance only rides the Tour and only wins the tour.
See the difference?
Are you going to compare the level of competition in Merckx's years to the current level of competition too? If so, this is a factor as well. These guys only get better, and train better every year. I'd venture a guess that the days of a cyclist that could just "race at will" all year around without specifically training for the "big one" are over... at least over for a guy that expects to win multiple TDF's.
Again, the TDF is the "big daddy". If it were that easy, everyone would cut way back on their schedules and train specifically for it, no?
Again, the TDF is the "big daddy". If it were that easy, everyone would cut way back on their schedules and train specifically for it, no?
http://revelsports.com/Articles/VO2_Max.htm
vo2 ratings to compare with armstrong ,
"US College Track, Male: 57.4
College Students, Male: 44.6
Highest Recorded Female (Cross-Country Skier): 74
Highest Recorded Male (Cross-Country Skier): 94
Steve Prefontaine, US runner, 84.4
Frank Shorter, US Olympic Marathon winner, 71.3
Derek Clayton, Australian ex-Marathon World Record holder, 69.7
Jeff Galloway, US Runner, 73.0
Greg LeMond, professional cyclist, 92.5
Matt Carpenter, Pikes Peak marathon course record holder, 92
Miguel Indurain, professional cyclist, 88 "
kinda puts that 84 into perspective
-dave-
vo2 ratings to compare with armstrong ,
"US College Track, Male: 57.4
College Students, Male: 44.6
Highest Recorded Female (Cross-Country Skier): 74
Highest Recorded Male (Cross-Country Skier): 94
Steve Prefontaine, US runner, 84.4
Frank Shorter, US Olympic Marathon winner, 71.3
Derek Clayton, Australian ex-Marathon World Record holder, 69.7
Jeff Galloway, US Runner, 73.0
Greg LeMond, professional cyclist, 92.5
Matt Carpenter, Pikes Peak marathon course record holder, 92
Miguel Indurain, professional cyclist, 88 "
kinda puts that 84 into perspective
-dave-
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Evil_Cloud said:Crisidelm said:
That's my point, Mercx rode everthing, and won (nearly) everything there was to win, Lance only rides the Tour and only wins the tour.
See the difference?
Yup...Lance will win at least six straight tours, including (I believe) the oldest rider to do so. Neither of which Mercx had done.
It really is kind of pointless to "compare" athletes of different eras...other than to say they are both great.
I agree that greatness abounds on the TDF. I just tire of the excuses and doping claims when it comes to Armstrong, specifically. He's managed to hold off Ulrich 5 times now, and sometimes just by the skin of his teeth. They're both great riders. My "beef" is, if it were the other way around, how many times would we be hearing about Ulrich "doping up", even with his past record of doing so?
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Considering Ullrich is not French...you'd probably hear the accusations a lot.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Lance just won stage (17th) today...
The man's a machine...
The man's a machine...
Well, granted, he's a self admitted jerk, but its tough to be a good sportsman when you have to put up with:
and
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2593080
and
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2593080
He's not the only driver who has to put up with angry or crazy fans, yet he still manages to come across as a prick compared to most others.
I think the whole doping issue has been handled rather fairly though, at least here in the german media I've heard almost nobody bring up these accusations during the tour. Ullrich is actually treated a lot harsher. T-Mobile's tactics, actually the entire team is critizised for behaving stupidly during the whole tour. Ullrich had to endure quite a lot of harsh commentary during his weak first weeks, many even started to challenge him as the team's captain when Klöden managed to keep up better with Armstrong. At least the last few days he has shown he still knows how to ride a bike, so I guess we'll all fall in line and hope our best for next year once this tour is over with.
Regarding the latest cannibalism allegories - if Lance can win, nobody has the right to demand of him to stand down and let someone else take the pie. It might seem a bit greedy and almost cruel to snatch away victory from Klöden like that, especially considering Lance is going to win it all this year anyway, yet Klöden and T-Mobile are only a few days away from desaster. But things like that happen every day in sports, just look at what Shumacher does to F1...
I think the whole doping issue has been handled rather fairly though, at least here in the german media I've heard almost nobody bring up these accusations during the tour. Ullrich is actually treated a lot harsher. T-Mobile's tactics, actually the entire team is critizised for behaving stupidly during the whole tour. Ullrich had to endure quite a lot of harsh commentary during his weak first weeks, many even started to challenge him as the team's captain when Klöden managed to keep up better with Armstrong. At least the last few days he has shown he still knows how to ride a bike, so I guess we'll all fall in line and hope our best for next year once this tour is over with.
Regarding the latest cannibalism allegories - if Lance can win, nobody has the right to demand of him to stand down and let someone else take the pie. It might seem a bit greedy and almost cruel to snatch away victory from Klöden like that, especially considering Lance is going to win it all this year anyway, yet Klöden and T-Mobile are only a few days away from desaster. But things like that happen every day in sports, just look at what Shumacher does to F1...
Yesterday Armstrong acted really bad: he chased a rider (Simeoni) who was trying to pull back on the leading fugitive group, and once they reached them, Armstrong told the fugitive riders that if Simeoni did not stop he'd not either, so that the "peloton" would chase them all the way (because Ullrich, Basso etc cannot afford to let Armstrong go ahead like that) until eventually got back on them. In the end Simeoni had to stop (and so Armstrong did too) and wait for the main group, to let the others keep on...
Im not up on my cycling etiquite. So can you explain why this is bad. I thought the point was to win the tour.Crisidelm said:
epic
Let's see: do you know baseball? What would you think of a pitcher whose team is leading by 12 point in the last inning, 2 are already out, and he hits intentionally the man at bat because he doesn't like that guy, and after all, he just gives a base, no big deal?
Just to give the big-picture impression, it's not a perfect parallelism I know...
Just to give the big-picture impression, it's not a perfect parallelism I know...
what if the next day they had to play the team again. by hitting the batter you _might_ cause the batter to not play as well tomorrow.Crisidelm said:
Im not into cycling enough to know why what you originally said is bad. Ill take your word, that its bad. Do we know why lance didnt like the guy?
epic
Lance and a lot of other cyclists don't like the guy cause Simeoni testified in court that Lance' current team doctor and medical expert (who worked for a lot of other teams and cyclists too and is on record for the famous quote "Epo is not worse for the human body than about 5 liters orange juice") personally set him the needle with banned substances. Armstrong actually got gratulations on his move to chase Simeoni from other athletes in the peloton when they were back...
