Gamasutra/GDCEurope - Integrating Xbox 360 Features

[London Geezer]

Selective quoting much? If you're going to quote people, do it properly and dont crucify them for the first few words of the sentence.

Well obviously my point wasn't that console games are "proper games". The main point was

they are released and they're finished, the developers don't have the luxury of patches so they have to release the game finished. If there are bugs, they're screwed. On PC, they can release half-finished games becasue they know they can always release patches.

 

[AzBat]

Of all the good stuff in the article, we're still talking about hard drives and saves? That'll teach me to not bring it up again. LOL

Finding out the Dashboard and Guide are indeed separate was interesting. I wonder how much different. Didn't we read somewhere that Microsoft had to design the OS to fit in 4MB? Where's that exactly stored at? I like how they have made it easier on developers and users by making a lot of features like music, controller settings, friends, 1on1 chat, etc available to all games. Other interesting features are the ability to have game specific themes/skins for the Guide and banners for access to game specific marketplace items or other game specific announcements.

As for parental controls, I wonder if Microsoft will allow games to dial down their content allowing for games to play to meet the target audience. Hopefully they also fixed the problem with having a disk(ex OXM) with content having varying kinds of ratings. If you had parental controls enabled OXM disks wouldn't play because they were rated RP even if the disk itself only contained rated E or T content.

Specific game achievements and points sounds really, really cool. Really gives incentive for completing the game. Especially now that these points and achievements are viewable by everybody on Live. I guess they got this idea from OXM. Something tells me OXM might not be much of magazine for the Xbox 360. They sent me out a survey a couple of months asking a lot questions regarding how liked its content, disk and everything else in regards to Xbox 360. This is one of the reasons I'm leery about re-subscribing now that my subscription has ended.

Keeping track of your friends and what they're doing is really neat especially for single-player games. Kinda like a news, sports or stock ticker for gaming. It's also nice to be able to do a 1on1 quick chat with anybody you want during gameplay even if they're not in your game. It's also nice to know that your mute/ignore list will be persistent across all titles.

As for mice support, I could really care less. When I converted to the Xbox from the PC in 2002 I never looked back at the keyboard and mouse. Though I will be interested in how they handle USB device support. Didn't they say that USB storage devices will only be read-only? Oh well. I'm really more interested in how they're going to handle migration from Xbox to xbox 360. Hopefully Microsoft has something planned to bring saves, extra content and music from the old console to the new one. If not, maybe somebody else will? If they don't, I'll probably need to keep my old console. I was hoping to get some cash from it to go towards the 360.

Anyway, sounds like Microsoft really listened to users and developers when building the guide and updating Live. Can't wait to try it out.

Tommy McClain

 

[MrFloopy]

Well obviously my point wasn't that console games are "proper games". The main point was:

We are in total agreement

Now if MMOG is going to become pervasive on the console platform then this can not be comprimised.

I have debated this point often with others in the industry as to how the content update issue can be addressed (stemming from PS2 where you could not assume a HDD was attached.)

One thought we had was that if the end user was paying a monthly subscription then perhaps a part of that subscription was an updated monthly DVD. You would have to plan ahead several months so that no new content would be required until you could reliably assume everyone was using a DVD containing that data. E.g:

month 1 - Start Data + (a)
month 2 - Start Data + (a) + (b)
month 3 - Start Data + (a) + (b) + (c)

in month 3 subscription service requires presence of Start Data + (a)

and so on.

Of course this is not an ideal solution but maybe a starting point for more ingenious solutions.

 

[London Geezer]

We are in total agreement

You're crazy! After all that!

Now if MMOG is going to become pervasive on the console platform then this can not be comprimised.

I have debated this point often with others in the industry as to how the content update issue can be addressed (stemming from PS2 wher you could not assume a HDD was attached.)

One thought we had was that if the end user was paying a monthly subscription then perhaps a part of that subscription was an updated monthly DVD. You would have to plan ahead several months so that no new content would be required until you could reliably assume everyone was using a DVD containing that data. E.g:

month 1 - Start Data + (a)
month 2 - Start Data + (a) + (b)
month 3 - Start Data + (a) + (b) + (c)

Subscription service requires presence of Start Data + (a)

and so on.

Of course this is not an ideal solution but maybe a starting point for more ingenious solutions.

Now THAT sounds like a royal pain in the a$$. I mean, really.

 

[MrFloopy]

You're crazy! After all that!

we only agree about that small bit

Now THAT sounds like a royal pain in the a$$. I mean, really.

Yeah, thats the conclusion we came up with too, but if you don't like:

secondly, updates and enhancements:
Ummm... don't have them.

and you can't assume there's a HDD present then what choice do you have.....

(Of course there's always a PC but you didn't hear it from me. )

 

[London Geezer]

and you can't assume there's a HDD present then what choice do you have.....

(Of course there's always a PC but you didn't hear it from me. )

You can't assume there will be a HDD present, but Sony and developers will surely push the "game updates" and "new levels" thing, from Sony's side to sell more HDD/MemSticks and from the publisher's side to charge consumers more just for "new levels"... Or maybe i'm just being overly paranoid.

 

[MrFloopy]

You can't assume there will be a HDD present, but Sony and developers will surely push the "game updates" and "new levels" thing, from Sony's side to sell more HDD/MemSticks and from the publisher's side to charge consumers more just for "new levels"... Or maybe i'm just being overly paranoid.

But you can't in a MMOG if you can't assume a mass storage device is always present.

The thing with consoles and TRC's is that they are very very tough on ensuring a consistant experience. Believe me as much as we as users may complain about this, it is very important for the people that subsidise our gaming experience (that is the mainstream gamer).

We all have to accept that we as hard core gamers (a little less me these days as I tire of being wooped by young wipper-snappers ) are not the driving motivation for hardware manufacuters and software publishers.

This leads into the cost of production and the sale price of games, but this is getting way off topic and I'm rambling way too much due to being home from work minus wisdom teeth (which I left till being at a ripe old age) and being on some wonderful medication.

By the way did someone mention PC gaming being dead <ducks>

 

[London Geezer]

But you can't in a MMOG if you can't assume a mass storage device is always present.

The thing with consoles and TRC's is that they are very very tough on ensuring a consistant experience. Believe me as much as we as users may complain about this, it is very important for the people that subsidise our gaming experience (that is the mainstream gamer).

We all have to accept that we as hard core gamers (a little less me these days as I tire of being wooped by young wipper-snappers ) are not the driving motivation for hardware manufacuters and software publishers.

This leads into the cost of production and the sale price of games, but this is getting way off topic and I'm rambling way too much due to being home from work minus wisdom teeth (which I left till being at a ripe old age) and being on some wonderful medication.

Personally i've also stopped playing games. I just can't keep up and i can't believe i used to find all that time to put into gaming. Like 80 hours for FFX and many others... Amazes me.
One of the reasons is the trend with online features and online play. It just doesn't attract me in the least. Just the thought of downloading content and downloading this and that puts me off the whole experience. Maybe i'm just too used to my little enclosed games, put it in, play, save, go back to it, play some more... and so on...
The whole online thing drives me mad.

God i must sound so old.

By the way did someone mention PC gaming being dead <ducks>

Didn't you get the memo? PC gamez ar teh deadest!!11!eleven

 

[MrFloopy]

God i must sound so old.

Yes you do (trying to make myself seem younger)

Gotta say i know how you feel. What worries me the most is that as much as I love 3D tech (which is my no 1 passion), I hold little hope for the next gen games in terms of fun. My belief is that if the simple mechanic is not fun then it doesn't matter how much you spend on the dress it just aint fun.

But hey I remember when we said how the dazzling capacity that CD's produced was just making game developers lazy and now there's complaints that 7GB of data is ludicrously deficient.

Ah this industry provides a laugh a day.

Didn't you get the memo? PC gamez ar teh deadest!!11!eleven

Now that did make me laugh

 

[London Geezer]

Yes you do (trying to make myself seem younger)

Gotta say i know how you feel. What worries me the most is that as much as I love 3D tech (which is my no 1 passion), I hold little hope for the next gen games in terms of fun. My belief is that if the simple mechanic is not fun then it doesn't matter how much you spend on the dress it just aint fun.

But hey I remember when we said how the dazzling capacity that CD's produced was just making game developers lazy and now there's complaints that 7GB of data is ludicrously deficient.

Ah this industry provides a laugh a day.

I agree. I can't help but feel that i just don't have as much fun with videogames as i used to.
But is that because i've grown up? Or is it because games are actually less fun?
That's one of the mysteries of life huh. Next to "Am i losing my hair? Or is my hair losing me?"

 

[MrFloopy]

I agree. I can't help but feel that i just don't have as much fun with videogames as i used to.
But is that because i've grown up? Or is it because games are actually less fun?
That's one of the mysteries of life huh. Next to "Am i losing my hair? Or is my hair losing me?"

Not sure. For me it's "is it cause they are crap or cause I spend most of my week working on them".

I think the growing up or getting older thing just means that it has to be pretty bloody good to warrant spending time on. I mean lets face it we have more pressing issues at hand as we get older, as opposed to the play anything that moves attitude you have when your 14.

But then i think thats the issue facing the industry now. I honesty believe that Sony won that last two generatrions of consoles beacuse they so got the 15 minute play rule.

That is the people who have the money to pay and play only have small slices of time to do so. One of the most important gamers to capture is "the mate who turns up before I'm ready to go out on sat night so shut him up and sit him on the sofa playing game for 15 minutes while I get ready".

who later becomes the "We got back from pub/night club/party and too wired to go to bed so lets play that game for 30 mins".

it's the 15-30 minute gamer that rules our universe.

 

[London Geezer]

as opposed to the play with anything that moves attitude you have when your 14.

Uhm yeah i think i remember those days....

it's the 15-30 minute gamer that rules our universe.

What does your girl think about that?!!

That is the people who have the money to pay and play only have small slices of time to do so. One of the most important gamers to capture is "the mate who turns up before I'm ready to go out on sat night so shut him up and sit him on the sofa playing game for 15 minutes while I get ready".

Heh, when some games take up to 5 minutes from pushing the ON button to actually get to play the game, you can see how gaming has started to losing points in my priority list.
I literally have not played with my PS2 since xmas.
I nibbled around with PC games, but even those i haven't even bothered finishing (doom3, HL2, Farcry etc...), got so boring so soon...

 

[NavNucST3]

firstly, patches:
These would be needed why?

secondly, updates and enhancements:
Ummm... don't have them.

Sounds like a pretty simple solution.

Taken from Pauls' Site:

Game updates and service packs

Paul: You don't see this a lot with console games these days, but one thing you can do with this is actually update games, fix bugs.

Jeff: You know, that's true even on Xbox Live today. But it's dangerous water. And I'm going to give you two answers here. Today, Xbox Live definitely gives us the opportunity to keep the gaming environment safe and secure. So if an online game goes out and there's a serious cheating threat, or there's a serious security threat, Xbox Live is a great tool and a closed environment where we can fix that. That's the obvious stuff. The second part of it is that Xbox Live and the ability to download new content is not a crutch to ship crappy software. And too often on the PC--I'm going to be blunt here--in the PC gaming space, games get out that developers know have problems because they know they can patch them later. They know they can force updates. And the act of playing [games online] becomes a pain in the ass, because you put the disc in and then you gotta download the patch and you gotta download the service pack and you gotta download the security hot fix, and then you gotta apply those things and reboot your machine. That's not an entertainment experience. That is not fun. That is not "pick up the controller and play."

I feel very strongly about this. One of the things that we're hard core about with Xbox on our customers' behalf is that Xbox 360, like the original Xbox, is a pick up the controller, pop in the disc, and play kind of system. Always. That is the experience you can count on. It's fun, it's easy to get into and it's consistent.

So if there are updates, they're usually done quickly and silently. And we are much, much more cooperative with our game developers about making sure those kinds of problems are fixed up front such that hot fixes and service packs and other maintenance are kept to an absolute minimum. It does happen. It happens on Xbox 1. We've done many security implementations for games on Xbox 1. Most people don't know about it because they're fast and silent. When was the last time you hot-fixed Halo?
Paul: I've never hot-fixed Halo.
Jeff: Yes you have.

[Laughter]

Jeff: This is my point. You've never felt any pain around it. We never want users to feel pain.

Paul: You should talk to the Windows guys about this some time.

Jeff: Actually, that's one of the really cool things that's going on at Microsoft right now. The amount of technology sharing and the amount of insight and context sharing that's going on right now between groups is reaching ... I've been hear for 15 years. I think it's reaching a new high, which is really cool.