Formula 1 - 2020 Season

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pharma, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. DJ12

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    It doesn't move the centre of the wheel or change the rotational axis, so by the definition of the rule it's totally legal. Will be funny when Hamilton or more likely Bottas forgets he's in straight wheel mode though when he tries to turn a corner.

    Quite clever I guess, I imagine the entire steering rack moves, and the movement changes the toe of the car. (just watched a bit of the scarbs video and this is basically what he suggests to.

    FIA aware, have been for some time. This is not just for testing.

    Ferrari will probably protest, and then quietly copy it when it's rejected, much like everyone did with Merc's adjustable ride height system.
     
  2. Kaotik

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    So, apparently now the question is whether the Mercedes system should be counted to be at least partly part of suspension system or not. If it would be counted as such, it would be illegal, if it's judged to be only part of steering it could be legal.
    Mercedes obviously thinks it's legal, Red Bulls Helmut Marko already commented that they think it's illegal.
     
  3. DJ12

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    Red bull are just upset they didn't think about it first. No on has ever classed a steering rack as part of the suspension
     
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  4. Freemantle

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    Yeah of course Helmut Marko is upset, he is always upset.

    The W11 was already looking pretty beastly on day one, then on day two Merc start playing with the DAS and the paddock get another shock to the system, it's pure gold!

    If you can't beat it, ban it. If you can't ban it, cover it in pink.
     
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  5. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Well it, does alter the ride height (even if ever so slightly), which is in general accounted to suspension

    edit:
    This could be repeat of the McLaren's 2nd brake pedal.
    FIA said it was legal, because McLaren had presented it in such fashion that it was thought as just a brake pedal, until Ferrari came in, protested and argumented it can be counted as traction control, which led to FIA banning it
     
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  6. hoom

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    WTF? Did they just copy the shape & will still have inferior mechanicals or is it literally last years' Merc?

    That new merc steering system has gotta be banned surely? Even if its officially legal.
     
  7. DJ12

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    As I said previously, Mercedes have been running something that alters the ride height when the steering is on full lock for years, it wasn't banned although a tolerance was introduced, now everyone else has copied it.

    There is nothing in the rules that say you cannot change the wheel alignment so this system is legal. I cannot see any grounds what so ever for teams to even complain about it within the current rules. It's pretty clear it what it does and it's not an automatic system.
    At least it looks like last years car, not the current years as Haas did with Ferrari when they entered F1.
     
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  8. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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  9. pharma

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    So it seems it is legal in the current FIA rules, but a new rules for the 2021 season explicitly prohibits DAS and similar systems.
    From @Kaotik link:
     
  10. Globalisateur

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    But why they won't allow DAS in the first place, particularly if it's powered ? That tech should be perfect for real cars. So what ? tech progress isn't allowed at all on F1 ?

    Maybe they'll allow such a tech on Formula E...
     
  11. tongue_of_colicab

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    You mean why won't they ban it or why don't they just allow it?

    I doubt this has much use for normal road cars. Tire temperature and wear aren't exactly a problem. Cornering speeds are also generally so low that I don't think DAS would make any real difference.

    If you want your road car to steer better, you'd be better off with rear wheel steering as some manufacturers already have.

    It's also not about the FIA not allowing technical progress. This is more of a loophole in the rules than true technical advancement. If they allow this they might as well go all the way and allow automatically adjusted ride heights again. But that was banned 30 years ago for a reason.

    As cool as it is to see stuff like this, it doesn't really have any relevance outside racing and even then the gain is probably fairly small while development costs are high. It's also not really within the spirit of the rules I suppose.
     
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  12. Globalisateur

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    So I guess this should be the real reason whey they'll ban it next year ? to level the playing field ? Well then they should forbid custom cars completely and give every drivers the same cars like in some others competitions.
     
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  13. Freemantle

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    I guess the dilemma for the other teams now is do they spend the time and money trying to copy a system Mercedes will have benefit of all season long? With the big regulation changes coming next year anyway causing them all to split their development resources already...
     
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  14. Gerry

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    Have to admit this kind of gimmicky "innovation" is the kind of thing I hate in F1. Less about genuine innovation and more about finding a loophole in the regulations. Hopefully the advantage they gain is minimal and other teams don't bother copying it for just a single year of usage.
     
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  15. tongue_of_colicab

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    Not to level the playing field, to keep teams from having to spend enormous amounts of money on niche applications that won't be used outside F1.

    I suppose that would depend on the real world benefit, the time it would take to develop a similar system and the feasibility of retrofitting it to current cars.

    Unless it's easy to do I doubt anyone apart from maybe Ferrari or RBR is going to bother.
     
  16. DJ12

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    At least it looks like last years car, not the current years as Haas did with Ferrari when they entered
    So from the rules, make the wheels toe in automatically when the wheel is straight, problem solved.
     
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  17. pharma

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    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51587920
     
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  18. Gubbi

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    It is clearly part of steering and not suspension. The rules state no more than two wheels can be affected, which means adjusting the toe-in of the front wheels is legal as the rules are now. If Mercedes also changed toe-in of the rears to get a sort of four wheel steering, it would be a violation.

    The others are bitching because they didn't think of it. Unfortunately it means this season will be as boring as the last three.

    Cheers
     
  19. cjo

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    Doesn't the requirement that it be a monotonic function of steering wheel position mean that you can't have it toe in while in the centre and toe out if you steer to the left or right?
     
  20. pharma

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    Formula 1: Ferrari engine investigation sparks 'anger' from rivals
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51688538
     
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