'Faster than' means

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Eolirin, Mar 19, 2021.

?

whats the answer

Poll closed Mar 30, 2021.
  1. 300 km/hr is 2 times faster than 100 km/hr

    19.2%
  2. 200 km/hr is 2 times faster than 100 km/hr

    80.8%
  1. Eolirin

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    145
    Idk, math is kind of weird on that.

    If we use 60 as our baseline instead of 40, then 40 is ~66% of 60, and it's ~73% of the speed. The scaling is pretty close to what it should be looking at it like that.

    But I'm honestly not sure which way is the right way to do that comparison.
     
    #1 Eolirin, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  2. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    680
    40 is base ;) 60/40 = 1.5x and real results we got is 1.36x
     
  3. Eolirin

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    145
    Sure, but why does 40 need to be the baseline, and how is the discrepancy between taking the exact same numbers and going in the other direction resolved?
     
  4. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    680
    to know how much something is faster than other we take slower one as base, just math
     
  5. Eolirin

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    145
    That's not true, it should always work in both directions, but I think I resolved it anyway. The gap is actually the same doing it both ways, it just seems smaller at first glance doing it one way, but correcting for the difference in scale it's the same.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  6. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    680
    the other way could be confusing for example something is 2x faster, so slower as base we got 2/1 and we got simple 2x, faster as base and we get 1/2 = 0.5 and somebody wrongly could assume its only 50% difference while its 100%
     
  7. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    16,085
    Location:
    The North
    No, technically someone should see it about 50% as fast. There's not reason that someone should assume the difference is 100%
    40 out of 60 is a glass that is 2/3 full. There is nothing wrong with that fraction.
    And 60 out of 40 is a glass and 1/2 full.

    It just depends on which number you want to make the size of the glass.

    If you have an option to make a scale out of a dataset. Do you select your maximum number using the smallest number? Probably not. So it depends on what you're trying to achieve. Most people will explore the min/max of a data set, and create a logical scale from there.

    It's not wrong for someone to look at the RDNA 2 series and see it goes from likely 36CU all the way to 80CU.

    And make 80CU the size of the glass so that everything fits neatly into it as a working fraction.

    Being able to select the correct scale and fractions is really just a representation of the story you are trying to tell:

    • If you want to look at the whole family of devices, one may desire the baseline to be 80CU.
    • If you want to look at just 1 device, you probably want to baseline relative to that device.
    With respect to the debate you guys are having, I don't know which way I'd go. I think looking at a family of devices and seeing a scale, I think I'd use 80 CU as the glass and look at performance relative to that if the goal is to look at CU scaling.
     
    #7 iroboto, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
    RagnarokFF and PSman1700 like this.
  8. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    680
    guarantee you that many are confused when faster is base,edit: your comment about 50% was about qouted example of 2x faster ? if so then you are wrong ;d something 2x faster is not 50% faster but 100% faster
     
  9. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    What? Two times faster is 200% faster. Twice as fast is 100% faster.
     
  10. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    680
    2x is 100% faster, English is not my native so I don't know if 2x can be translated to two times faster or there is difference and has to be translated to twice as fast
     
  11. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,382
    Likes Received:
    1,403
    huh, I would say 2x faster = 100% faster
    but then again I do suck in english, and its the language Im most proficient in :sad2:
     
  12. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
    Moderator Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    5,498
    Likes Received:
    1,326
    Can we all disagree that it’s:

    y faster = x + yx.

    y as fast = yx.

    {Two times = 2x = 2* = 200%} faster = {300% = three times} as fast.
    {One times = 1x = 1* = 100%} faster = {200% = two times = twice} as fast.
    {Half times = .5x = .5* = 50%} faster = {150% = one and a half times = half again} as fast.

    I like using x as the implied standard variable name as it makes this 2x as confusing, aka 100% confusinger. Your guess is as good as mine as to why I used {} rather than [].
     
    Silent_Buddha, DSoup and see colon like this.
  13. Metal_Spirit

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    396

    Friends.. Native language doesn´t matter... this is math. And yes.. it can be confusing.

    100% faster is twice the speed!

    If my car goes to 100 MPH, and my other car is 10% faster, he goes to 110 MPH... If it is 100% faster, he goes at 200 mph...

    Question is... 110 MPH = 1,1*100 MHP, and 200 MPH is 2x100MPH, and that means 110 MPH is 100% the original speed+10% the original speed=110%, and 200 MHP is 100% the original speen+100% the original speed = 200%.

    So both are correct... The wording faster removes the need of the use of 200%, since we are adding over the 100%. So 100% faster is the same as saying that in comparison this car gives 200% the speed of that other.
     
    snc likes this.
  14. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    The language matters I think, because the nuance is in the use of the words "faster" and "as fast". Those words have definitions close to each other but one implies inclusion of the original value while another does not.
     
    Pete likes this.
  15. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,382
    Likes Received:
    1,403
    I do agree with you see colon that language matters, I tried to have a look online for authoritative (i.e. not someone on a forum) definitions of the language but couldnt find anything! Maybe someone elses google-fu is better
     
  16. dobwal

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,705
    Likes Received:
    1,945
    Two times faster and twice as fast is the same thing.

    100 mph X 2 = equals twice as fast or 2X faster.

    100% faster is quickly calculated by taking the base and multiplying by 2. 100% indicates the size of the increase without accounting for the base itself.

    In other words 100% is literally equal to 1 (conversion of percentage to decimal) so any number multiplied by 100% is equal to itself.

    100% increase (or faster) would be calculated as 100 mph X 2 or 100 mph (base number) + 100 mph (the increase in speed) = 200 mph.
     
    #16 dobwal, Mar 22, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  17. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,382
    Likes Received:
    1,403
    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/28iht-edfreeman.1.8081659.html

     
    Pete likes this.
  18. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    What? No, two times faster is a 200% increase. Twice as fast is a 100% increase. The word "faster" is a rate of increase, and the base value must be added to it. "Two times faster" is descriptive of the rate of increase only, and not the base so the base must be added to it to calculate the final number. So base times rate of increase to find thee rate of increase, added to base to find the total number. "As fast" includes the base value and is comparative to that base value. So base multiplied times the comparative value (2 in the case of twice). You say it right there at the end. "100% increase (or faster) would be calculated as 100 mph X 2 or 100 mph (base number) + 100 mph (the increase in speed) = 200 mph". That's 100% (or 1 times) faster, or twice as fast. 200% faster would be two times faster.

    -Edit-
    After putting some thought into it, I think "two times faster" may be grammatically incorrect anyway. It's like saying "more faster".
     
    #18 see colon, Mar 22, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
    Pete likes this.
  19. snc

    snc
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    931
    Likes Received:
    680
    lmao with confusing of percentage usage ;d its really better just to keep to multiplayers like 1.5x, 2x and don't use percentage at all (you can't interprent 1.5x or 2x in different ways) ;d and to do that slower should be base ;)
     
  20. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,060
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    What if we multiply by .5?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...