Euro, US and JP 2011 YTD Sales

[function]

...£50 cheaper for the cheapest SKU. ...
... £45 cheaper for the top SKU. Sony don't do an official Move bundle in the EU so comparing Kinect bundles isn't really fair.

Fair to who? Sony don't do a BluRay or HDD less PS3 but you're happy to compare that to the 4GB 360. Customers are buying Kinect SKUs in large numbers so I think you have to at least acknowledge that it'll be driving prices upwards.

Here is the Amazon UK bestselling games list: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/videogames/

At the time of writing:
[08 - Xbox Live 12 Month Gold sub (33.99)]
23 - Xbox 360 250GB (£189.99)
28 - Xbox 360 250GB + Kinect (£269.99)
[43 - Kinect Sensor on its own (£99.99)]
60 - Xbox 360 4GB + Kinect (£224.99)
[62 - PS3 160 GB (189.00)]

Xbox 360 4GB vanilla doesn't even show in the top hundred. All three charting Xbox bundles are more expensive that the only PS3 on the chart. Amazon isn't the whole country but it is the largest online retailer in the UK. At the very least these figures should caution us against any comparison that pits the 4GB against the PS3 or that tries to ignore Kinect.

Edit: Added Xbox Live Membership card position just because it's amazing that MS is able to print money like this, completely unopposed from Sony or Nintendo.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Neither is comparing a 160GB model to a 4GB model.

When it comes to minimum cost of ownership for someone wanting to buy into a platform, that is a fair comparison. A punter with limited funds to buy into an HD gaming console has to spend either £140 on XB360 or £180 on PS3, hence the 360 has a price advantage. But as I've said, that's a silly comparison when trying to understand current sales as we need the actual average sale price, as that's telling us what the limiting factor is. If XB360 is typically selling bottom-of-the-range SKUs, then price isn't so much the issue holding the platform back from outselling PS3 in Europe. If the majority of 360's being sold are with Kinect, then that suggests it's Kinect people want and dropping the price would open that up for new customers. Although there could also be issuse of whether people can even use Kinect. And other reasons besides.

At the time of writing:
[08 - Xbox Live 12 Month Gold sub (33.99)]
23 - Xbox 360 250GB (£189.99)
28 - Xbox 360 250GB + Kinect (£269.99)
[43 - Kinect Sensor on its own (£99.99)]
60 - Xbox 360 4GB + Kinect (£224.99)
[62 - PS3 160 GB (189.00)]

Xbox 360 4GB vanilla doesn't even show in the top hundred.

It also would suggest 360 is massively outselling PS3... Such lists don't seem to provide much useful info.

Anyone wanting to make an argument about price sensititives needs to get hold of some proper average sales from market research. Anything less will just be guesswork. NathansFortune's remark about 'emergency price cut' for MS is completely unsubstantiated, as are counters that XB360 costs more than PS3. At this point we just don't know what people are spending.

 

[JB9861]

Not really surprised, the Ps3 continues to outsell the 360 and Wii will tatter off into 3rd place.

How will the Wii do that? Given its lead and assuming respectable holiday season performance. May even still have something in the tank and finish the year strong like last year.

 

[upnorthsox]

How will the Wii do that? Given its lead and assuming respectable holiday season performance. May even still have something in the tank and finish the year strong like last year.

Except last yr the wasn't a WiiU announced and preparing to launch. You may be right but circumstances have changed enough to question historical comparisons.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Announcement of an new generation shouldn't affect sales of the existing gen that year. Next-gen consoles are bought by early adopters, who will already own their consoles from this gen. People buying a Wii now won't be interested in buying a new, more expensive Wuu next year.

 

[NavNucST3]

...

Edit: Added Xbox Live Membership card position just because it's amazing that MS is able to print money like this, completely unopposed from Sony or Nintendo.

If Nintendo had anyone working at the company that didn't think the internet was just getting started a la 1994 (the way the net is now) then maybe they wouldn't have a different damn set of points cards for each of their damn devices...wtf...who dreams this stuff up at Nintendo?!?

 

[AlphaWolf]

not you math but your apples to apples comparison is somewhat lacking (I hereby find the defendant guilty of cherry picking )

i.e. youre comparing console & game & accessory vs console & game & film
FWIW Kinect Sensor with Kinect Adventures (Xbox 360) price = 99.98 quid
now resistence 3 costs £37.90 and also the blu-ray film (perhaps 50 pounds)


heres a more honest comparison is perhaps
cheapest xbox vs cheapest ps3 on amazon.co.uk

Sony PlayStation 3 Slim Console 189
Xbox 360 4GB Console 139

or perhaps best selling xbox360 console vs best selling ps3 console

Xbox 360 250GB Console - Matte Black Finish 189.99
Sony Playstation3 160GB Slim Console 189.00

Now tell me the Average sell price.

In the US the Average sell price was higher than the retail of the 250GB console. The only way it could get there is that they were selling more kinect bundles than lower priced units. So your apples to apples comparison isn't necessarily useful.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Now tell me the Average sell price.

In the US the Average sell price was higher than the retail of the 250GB console. The only way it could get there is that they were selling more kinect bundles than lower priced units. So your apples to apples comparison isn't necessarily useful.

That's the right comparion, but we don't have that data for Europe. I couldn't even find NA Kinect sales to make a guess at how many Kinect's were sold in Europe, so I see no way to even speculate to the 4GB:250GB:Kinect ratios to derive an average selling price in Europe.

 

[AlphaWolf]

the simple fact is that kinect is pushing up the ASP of the xbox, which means it is selling at a higher price this year than it was last year while the PS3 price has dropped.

So we're throwing in Kinect now? Wow.

Most hardcore gamers I know couldn't give a monkeys about Kinect. It's Gears, Forza, Fifa and bit of MW/BF.

Welcome to the year 2011, where the old hardcore gamers have grown up, kissed a girl and have families. I suspect your definition of hardcore gamers make up a minority of console owners.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

the simple fact is that kinect is pushing up the ASP of the xbox, which means it is selling at a higher price this year than it was last year while the PS3 price has dropped.

No-one has said otherwise. The fact the prices have changed doesn't tell us whether the ASP of XB360 is currently more or less than the ASP of PS3 though. Anyone trying to make the argument that PS3 is selling worse/better than XB360 because it is more expensive/cheaper hasn't got any facts to back up their argument, and people can only take a subjective selection of data to highlight their prefered position, hence the comparisons of different price points and bundle deals. Both sides are right in that the entry level price of 360 < PS3, and 360+Kinect > PS3, but those comparisons don't help understand the effect of pricing on sales.

 

[zed]

I couldn't even find NA Kinect sales to make a guess at how many Kinect's were sold in Europe,

mate its not even europe, amazon.co.uk is just the UK which has a lot different tastes than mainland europe (its like a mini US)
eg take germany

#23 PlayStation 3 - Konsole Slim 320 GB (J-Model) inkl. Dual Shock 3 Wireless Controller 237-
#46 PlayStation 3 - Konsole Slim 320 GB (K-Model) inkl. Dual Shock 3 Wireless Controller 255-
#99 Nintendo Wii "Sports Resort Pak" - Konsole inkl. Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort + Remote Plus Controller, schwarz 149.99
no xbox in the top100

 

[AlphaWolf]

The original assertion by function was about pricing in UK. Vic suggested there was no way the asp of the xbox was higher. I presented evidence that it was clearly possible.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

mate its not even europe, amazon.co.uk is just the UK which has a lot different tastes than mainland europe (its like a mini US)
eg take germany

#23 PlayStation 3 - Konsole Slim 320 GB (J-Model) inkl. Dual Shock 3 Wireless Controller 237-
#46 PlayStation 3 - Konsole Slim 320 GB (K-Model) inkl. Dual Shock 3 Wireless Controller 255-
#99 Nintendo Wii "Sports Resort Pak" - Konsole inkl. Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort + Remote Plus Controller, schwarz 149.99
no xbox in the top100

Sure but I believe the UK is also the largest market in Europe so it is somewhat relevant. The German chart you refer to also doesn't give us any insight into whether the ASP of the X360 is higher or lower than the PS3 in that country as we don't even know which X360 SKU is selling the most.

As Shifty keeps mentioning we don't have the data to conclude one way or another.

X360 has a higher ASP in Europe.
PS3 has a higher ASP in Europe.

Both are valid since we don't have the necessary data.

I find the most interesting thing about the data is that without Japan, the PS3 is still a bit behind but even then the X360 and PS3 are close enough that you could consider them roughly even.

And if we go by past Holiday seasons, there is a good chance the X360 will pull ahead during the holiday season. Although I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 managed to maintain it's current YTD lead.

Regards,
SB

 

[Ghostz]

I'm noticing across the interwebz that people have a hard believing the Ps3 has been pretty much outselling the 360 since they introduced the slim. Facts are facts. Why is that hard to believe?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'm noticing across the interwebz that people have a hard believing the Ps3 has been pretty much outselling the 360 since they introduced the slim. Facts are facts. Why is that hard to believe?

Who is having a hard time believing it? The PS3 sold 800k more units from Jan-Sept, with more than 1million of that advantage being in Japan (conversely the 360 is dominating in the US). The PS3 has been catching up for a long time now... although it's not really moving ahead of anyone yet as the numbers are still really close. Japan and US data was pretty much known, so only the EU data is new to anyone who was paying attention. I think EU data is a lot closer then expected.

I'd like to see some full year numbers for a better comparison, if you look at US for a full year through Sept 2011 you get.

ps3: 4.4m
360: 7m
wii: 6.3m

What I'm getting at is that I'd like to know how Europe data looks when you include a holiday season. Holiday is a huge deal in the US, but I'm not so sure it makes as much difference in europe.

 

[Ghostz]

Who is having a hard time believing it? The PS3 sold 800k more units from Jan-Sept, with more than 1million of that advantage being in Japan (conversely the 360 is dominating in the US). The PS3 has been catching up for a long time now... although it's not really moving ahead of anyone yet as the numbers are still really close. Japan and US data was pretty much known, so only the EU data is new to anyone who was paying attention. I think EU data is a lot closer then expected.

I'd like to see some full year numbers for a better comparison, if you look at US for a full year through Sept 2011 you get.

ps3: 4.4m
360: 7m
wii: 6.3m

What I'm getting at is that I'd like to know how Europe data looks when you include a holiday season. Holiday is a huge deal in the US, but I'm not so sure it makes as much difference in europe.

All I see is you rationing the numbers to fit your bias. The facts are this: the Ps3 has been outselling the 360 since they [Sony] introduced the Slim model, even with Kincet and everything. If we look at that as a basis, there's no way the 360 is going to outsell the Ps3 even through the holiday because there's no precedent for it with this current model. Microsoft would need to effectively double their 360 numbers in the US to change the outcome, which I assume nobody predicts would happen. The reality is people only come off bickering illogically by rationing the numbers in such a way. A bit harsh in wording but that's what it is.

 

[AlphaWolf]

All I see is you rationing the numbers to fit your bias. The facts are this: the Ps3 has been outselling the 360 since they [Sony] introduced the Slim model, even with Kincet and everything. If we look at that as a basis, there's no way the 360 is going to outsell the Ps3 even through the holiday because there's no precedent for it with this current model. Microsoft would need to effectively double their 360 numbers in the US to change the outcome, which I assume nobody predicts would happen. The reality is people only come off bickering illogically by rationing the numbers in such a way. A bit harsh in wording but that's what it is.

All I've done is provide facts (like the fact that the holiday quarter is huge in the US, it's half of Xboxs numbers) and ask for more data. If you have some nice graphs showing worldwide PS3 vs 360 sales since the slim introduction, go ahead and post them.

IF MS doubled their US numbers, they'd be selling 14+ million in the US alone each year. So I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Also why is the introduction of the PS3 slim, which is a very major singular point in PS3's lifeline a proper starting point for any comparison?

It is pretty evident though that PS3 has been slowly eating away the lead 360 got from its one year headstart. On average PS3 has been selling something like 1 million more per year, which incidentally is about the difference between the consoles in Japan. MS's nonexistence there makes it difficult to stay ahead in worldwide numbers, combined with somewhat passive pricing strategy it's even more difficult.

 

[Ghostz]

All I've done is provide facts (like the fact that the holiday quarter is huge in the US, it's half of Xboxs numbers) and ask for more data. If you have some nice graphs showing worldwide PS3 vs 360 sales since the slim introduction, go ahead and post them.

You are mining data to fit your bias, this is a red herring. I'm looking at Nintendo's graph seeing as though they are the only ones providing a full view of the market over the last 5 years.

Your point about the xbox numbers for holiday season are moot because it won't change the conclusion. Everyone does better doing the holiday season and the Ps3 is still going to outsell the 360 this year and the next.

 

[Ghostz]

Also why is the introduction of the PS3 slim, which is a very major singular point in PS3's lifeline a proper starting point for any comparison?

.

Because Ps3 Slim is when you actually saw an uptick in hardware and software sales in the US markets relative to the 360 install base. Microsoft hasn't really made up that difference anywhere else even with the Kinect.