Epic to focus on console games

[AlexV]

I've seen a number of PC developers talk about how anti-piracy measures - even if consumer unfriendly and annoying - result in a statistically verifiable and substantial boost in sales during the (most significant) initial sales period (first week or two).

It's no surprise at all to see developers and publishers moving to platforms with more robust and consumer accepted anti-piracy measures.

Every "broadband enabled" PC now has the ability to locate and download pirated versions of games in hours if not minutes. Convenience is a big factor in "casual piracy".

Galactic Civilizations and Sins of a Solar Empire, alongside Company of Heroes(the original, not the expansion), together with Oblivion wanted to say hi. They had incredibly poor sales due to not having Starforce or Securom or online activation or whatever other piece of intrusive and buggy software is needed for stopping the piracy plague.

 

[Neb]

Piracy is huge on PCs. You can get just about any game from the internet. I do not know a single person that doesnt download his PC games from the internet.

You should tell them to get a job and stop stealing. As an interesting note all of those I know that work buys all of their games, those that don't well they seldom buy original copies (of course it doesn't apply to all, conscience is a part of the equation to).

Especially now that broadband is common, kiss PC gaming goodbye. Everyone downloads and makes copies.

Umm broadband has been common for a long time in many areas, over here it has been common since 4 years back. And when broadband wasn't common then it was import/export of illegal copies flowing around.

And to say everyone downloads is completly ignorant and quite a stupid comment. Considering the released sales figures for just some games like Stalker (over 1.8 million), Witcher (1m+), Crysis (1m+)... WHAT people buying PC games and millions of copies sold of just a couple of titles!!!???

 

[Neb]

Galactic Civilizations and Sins of a Solar Empire...They had incredibly poor sales...

Umm hasn't that game been released for just about 1 week ago?

...alongside Company of Heroes(the original, not the expansion), together with Oblivion wanted to say hi. They had incredibly poor sales due to not having Starforce or Securom or online activation or whatever other piece of intrusive and buggy software is needed for stopping the piracy plague.

Not to forget you have named some games that are more targeted to a special type of gamer group. These games are more for the fans (except oblivion and perhaps CoH). These games not having copy protection may hint that the devs have confidence and have had good sales with their previous games.

 

[Neb]

Piracy has been prevalent on the PC for decades. It hasn't killed it yet and its more difficult these days than its ever been. Why should we expect it to suddenly kill PC gaming now?

Yeah, but then if not piracy or some games not selling well or "a PC costs 5000$+" then it will certainly be "a PC is to big, = PC gamming is dying". sigh

PC gaming isn't dying anyway. Its losing all its exclusive developers, there is no doubt at all of that. But that doesn't equal dying. Sony and MS have pretty much lost all of their exclusive developers aswell apart from first party stuff.

Yep.

 

[function]

Galactic Civilizations and Sins of a Solar Empire, alongside Company of Heroes(the original, not the expansion), together with Oblivion wanted to say hi. They had incredibly poor sales due to not having Starforce or Securom or online activation or whatever other piece of intrusive and buggy software is needed for stopping the piracy plague.

Half Life 2, Half Life 2 Ep 1, Half Life 2 Ep 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Bioshock, Guild Wars and WoW all say a much louder – almost deafening - “hi” right back. The interest in Valve's copy-protection middleware echoes this “hi”, as does the growth of Steam.

The standard of debate around this subject is appallingly low, with the effectiveness of copy protection in terms of protecting sales seemingly being judged on "how much I like copy protection". I don’t like intrusive copy protection as it happens, but that doesn’t mean I'm going to reject out of hand the idea that it can help protect sales, or that publishers who’ve analysed the impact of copy protection are idiots.

 

[AlexV]

Half Life 2, Half Life 2 Ep 1, Half Life 2 Ep 2, Team Fortress 2, Portal, Bioshock, Guild Wars and WoW all say a much louder – almost deafening - “hi” right back. The interest in Valve's copy-protection middleware echoes this “hi”, as does the growth of Steam.

The standard of debate around this subject is appallingly low, with the effectiveness of copy protection in terms of protecting sales seemingly being judged on "how much I like copy protection". I don’t like intrusive copy protection as it happens, but that doesn’t mean I'm going to reject out of hand the idea that it can help protect sales, or that publishers who’ve analysed the impact of copy protection are idiots.

ERM, asides from Bioshock who was actually a game with rather excessive anti-pirating measures, do you find the others to be all that well protected?There are like a billion cracked Steam clients and working Steam dumps show up on release-day. Guild Wars and WoW are MMO games...they're protected by their nature-no pay, no play, not by some arcane CD-check coupled with sex check coupled with birthsign check coupled with whatever.

These games sell on their own qualities IN SPITE of not being overly protected. A good game will get bought even if it has only a mere CD-Check, if that. What I'm trying to say is that turning piracy into the all-encompasing "Get out of jail free" card for devs isn't all that correct. Games are harder to sell on PC because the crowd is pickier, they expect more, both in terms of quality and support. Fact of the matter is that it's easier to sell on consoles, due to (relatively) lower standards-pretty much what CliffyB said. It's not the so-called flagel of piracy that's causing that.

In terms of piracy, there'll always be the bunch that'll only pirate, those that download but also buy and those that always buy. This'll never change. Make a solid game and support it properly, instead of a half arsed port that deletes your savegames(Gears of War for Windows anyone?), and it'll sell to the above last 2 categories.

 

[kyleb]

I'll take Ciffy's comment to mean that Gears on the PC will never be patched to support surround sound.

 

[pjbliverpool]

IAnd if it's cross platform in general I'll buy the 360 version because I know I'll get a good experience out of it.

I'm pretty much the opposite. Unless there is a serious samescreen multiplayer component to the game I'll always pick up the PC version over the 360.

Sure the 360 version is a safe bet. You know it will work and your pretty much guarenteed a base level of stability/performance, but then again, with a modern, stable rig your also pretty much guarenteed the game will work and work well.

My rig is good, but its not ultra high end anymore - E6400, 2GB DRR2, GTS 640MB, yet I know that in every single case, when I have a choice between the 360 and PC version i'll get more performance/graphics from the PC version. I also know it will work (at least I haven't had any serious problems yet). And given that the PC version is usually £10-£15 cheaper too, its a complete no brainer in my case.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Fact is, no one knows how many sales are lost through piracy. No one knows how many people are conned into buying buggy and faulty games that get quickly abandoned. There's no way to know how many unauthorised copies of any game are circulated. There's no way that a copied game always equals a lost sale, so any numbers are speculation at best.

Just like the movie and music executives who make a dud product are quick to point the finger at anywhere but their own failures, so too the games industry is happy to follow the same template of "not our fault".

I'd question whether Epic is leaving PCs because the consoles are so much better. AFAICT, Epic are no longer making PC games, merely ports of their console titles, and the PC gamers have actually abandoned Epic because they don't want console games. Epic can neatly use that to justify their concentration on consoles, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Do I really have to dig out that 2008 PC games list I posted in the last "PC is dying" thread? Other devs are making games, and if Epic are abandoning PCs in the products they make, it's no surprise PC gamers don't want to buy Epic's products. The same applies to all those devs who claim their poor sales are down to piracy/dying platforms/various BS.


Piracy is a nice neat bogeyman to absolve devs and publishers of responsibility:

Devs: I have this great idea for a game. It will sell millions of copies!

Publishers: That's great! Another FPS/RTS/MMPORG cookie cutter game that brings nothing new to the table! Here, have millions of dollars!

<some time later>

Devs: Why didn't this game sell well? We shoved it out the door incomplete, we cut features, it was buggy, we didn't advertise, but we only sold a few tens of thousands.

Publishers: Must have been those darn pirates! If we take the 30,000 copies we sold away from the three million we thought we'd sell a couple of years ago when you sold us the idea, then we know how many copies were stolen by those dastardly pirates! it wasn't our fault, honest.

Devs: Must abandon PC in favour of consoles. It wasn't our fault, honest.

 

[kyleb]

...when I have a choice between the 360 and PC version i'll get more performance/graphics from the PC version.

And far more if you go back to replay those games after making upgrades to your PC later down the line.

 

[ninzel]

I think it's as simple as the TV. The TV is such a central and important part of peoples lives. PC makers need to make their hardware and software more TV and living room friendly. Start by shipping every PC the size of a cable box,with a remote for navigating everything,and a video card with HDMI,composite,component out.

 

[function]

ERM, asides from Bioshock who was actually a game with rather excessive anti-pirating measures, do you find the others to be all that well protected?There are like a billion cracked Steam clients and working Steam dumps show up on release-day. Guild Wars and WoW are MMO games...they're protected by their nature-no pay, no play, not by some arcane CD-check coupled with sex check coupled with birthsign check coupled with whatever.

Nothing is uncrackable or un-pirateable (if that's a word), but convenience is a factor in piracy (of anything) and Valve's game appear to be a step beyond casual CD copying or key sharing. This is pretty much what Bioshock sets out to do, only without Steam.

These games sell on their own qualities IN SPITE of not being overly protected. A good game will get bought even if it has only a mere CD-Check, if that. What I'm trying to say is that turning piracy into the all-encompasing "Get out of jail free" card for devs isn't all that correct.

I agree whole heartedly that piracy isn't the only factor when low game sales are seen, and that games can successful even with lower levels of copy protection (perhaps even none). That doesn't mean that piracy isn't affecting sales at all and that publishers are wrong to think that Steam games and Bioshock benefit from some level of mildy intrusive copy protection.

Games are harder to sell on PC because the crowd is pickier, they expect more, both in terms of quality and support. Fact of the matter is that it's easier to sell on consoles, due to (relatively) lower standards-pretty much what CliffyB said. It's not the so-called flagel of piracy that's causing that.

I absolutely don't agree with this though - I think it is utterly baseless to suggest that the PC crowd expects more in terms of quality, especially given the success of buggy, unpolished titles that wouldn't even pass certification on console. This smacks of elitism - a console fan could just as easily (and pointlessly) claim that consoles are the home of people who appreciate finely crafted and balanced gameplay mechanics.

In terms of piracy, there'll always be the bunch that'll only pirate, those that download but also buy and those that always buy. This'll never change. Make a solid game and support it properly, instead of a half arsed port that deletes your savegames(Gears of War for Windows anyone?), and it'll sell to the above last 2 categories.

Yeah, do this and you'll hopefully have some success. Do this and deter casual pirates though, and your sales might just be higher ...

 

[kyleb]

I think it's as simple as the TV. The TV is such a central and important part of peoples lives. PC makers need to make their hardware and software more TV and living room friendly. Start by shipping every PC the size of a cable box,with a remote for navigating everything,and a video card with HDMI,composite,component out.

Heh, you can't rightly build a nice gameing right the size of a cable box, but you can get them the size of a receiver. Pesronally, I've got an old mini tower that takes a full size board and slides into a/v rack nicely.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Guild Wars and WoW are MMO games...they're protected by their nature-no pay, no play

Incorrect on GW. It's a flat-fee purchase of a disc or license key. I s'pse the real difference is it's online only, meaning the servers can check the key for duplication etc. Whereas on an install game, the key only works to enable installation.

 

[ninzel]

Heh, you can't rightly build a nice gameing right the size of a cable box, but you can get them the size of a receiver. Pesronally, I've got an old mini tower that takes a full size board and slides into a/v rack nicely.

Well they could do better than they are now.I have a little mac mini in my entertainment unit that does a nice job as a multimedia box.If you can can have that level of functionality in a box that small surely something could be done in a box twice as big even. Regular size PC's are too big and bulky to be easily
integrated. They are shooting themselves in the foot and limiting their potential.
Maybe part of the answer is less of a focus on outright power,that way they wouldn't have to worry as much about heat issues. Not to mention prices should come down.

 

[tabs]

Why is it, when games are cracked often before even release, that game makers bother with any sort of protection at all?

I can understand CD key checks for online gaming, but why add hassle for legitimate buyers when the copy protection scheme is cracked so easily anyway? I've never really understood this.

 

[Entropy]

Nothing is uncrackable or un-pirateable (if that's a word), but convenience is a factor in piracy (of anything) and Valve's game appear to be a step beyond casual CD copying or key sharing. This is pretty much what Bioshock sets out to do, only without Steam.

And this may gain them some dollars from those who wouldn't have bought it otherwise, but are so set on playing Bioshock that they pay for a retail copy, (rather than just play some other pirated game for free). Seriously, I doubt this describes a large number of purchases.
But for the sake of completeness, it must also be considered that this policy looses them sales - I took one look at their practises and just moved on, in spite of Bioshock being seemingly right down my alley. If I buy a game, I want to own it. I'm just not interested in paying them that money on those terms.
So, overall, did they win or did they loose? I'd say they lost, because even if they did win out economically (not a given), they still left a number of their customers with a bad taste in their mouth, a bad taste that doesn't necessarily apply to that particular game or publisher alone.

Gaming is supposed to be an enjoyable waste of time. Any needless hassle detracts from that enjoyment. The sense of being cheated detracts from that enjoyment. We are not a captive audience, we can simply stop playing and do something more productive with our lives. Shift priorities for time and money around.

Antagonising your market is a dubious move - have the efforts of RIAA or MPAA really benefitted the situations of either music listeners or artists? At the end of the day, has it even benefitted the publishers?

Tough copyright practises may well increase the percentage of paid for games, but at the cost of a reduced total market. Was it then good or bad? The question is not that easy, even for the publishers. For the industry as a whole though....

 

[function]

Absolutely, increasing sales of your title needs to be balanced against PR and market antagonism. The industry is still probing around, trying to find the best way to handle things. It's interesting to see the various attitudes to DRM as a whole - from PC games and music (where it's resisted) to HDMI enabled products and (relatively) secure platforms like consoles where practically no-one seems to care.

Starforce went down very badly (and so it should), but online activation is gaining acceptance. I can still remember the torrents of abuse that were directed towards Valve on message boards across the internet when Half Life 2's activation system was announced, but I think what they're doing is pretty reasonable.

After some initial problems with Bioshock (my virus scanner detected it as a threat - lol!) it went flawlessly, and after finishing it I removed the game, revoked the licence for that install and the game is good to go on just as many new systems as the day it was bought. More flexible in some ways than a Steam purchase, where to share the copy of the game I bought I need to share my Steam password (no thanks). I understand that at some point, when it's felt it no longer serves its purpose, Bioshock will be patched to remove activation.

It's a great game, and if online activation keeps titles like this flowing for the PC then I'll grudgingly accept that (I won't accept Starforce, either in practice or in principle). Whether it does help or hinder in the long term remains to be seen - though I guess publisher are already forming opinions on this. If online activation is going to become common I'd much rather have it done through a recognised, central service (like Steam) where I hold an account though though - only with more flexibility for changing ownership of the licence.

The only thing that grates about Steam is that I can only give a licence away if they chose to let me. Buggers!

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

It's worth noting that the people that were in the vanguard of DRM (ie the music cartels) have all but given up on it, citing device interoperability and both customer and retailer antipathy. It was actively dissuading people from buying music in the first place, leading to them sticking with their current collections and effectively giving up on new music as a hobby at all.

The lesson to be learned is that if you give your customers a lot of hassle, they soon stop being your customers, sometimes even if you are selling a compelling product that they want to give you money for.

 

[Npl]

Why is it, when games are cracked often before even release, that game makers bother with any sort of protection at all?

I can understand CD key checks for online gaming, but why add hassle for legitimate buyers when the copy protection scheme is cracked so easily anyway? I've never really understood this.

Do you think it stops anyone but the most amateurish really wanting to get into your house/flat/car if you lock the door and close the windows? Why do you still do it?

It has to do with making it obvious to thieves that stealing aint welcome, with no copy-protection people would have even less moral concerns.

On topic, I found both UT3 and Gears of War to be underwhelming - the difference here is IMHO that hype sells. You had nearly no coverage of UT3, while GoW was hyped as "best game evaar" long before its release.