Epic to focus on console games

[PARANOiA]

"I think the PC is just in disarray... What's driving the PC right now is Sims-type games and WOW and a lot of stuff that's in a web-based interface. You just click on it and play it. That's the direction PC is evolving into. For me, the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we're doing. It's important for us, but right now making AAA games on consoles is where we're at."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33095

Interesting, although I honestly think Epic haven't been at their best on the PC side for over half a decade. I still think UT '99 is one of the best multiplayer shooters ever, and every iteration just seems to take the series downhill a little more.

The PC market is evolving to a new level, clearly, with WoW changing the landscape, and many free-to-play options emerging. It seems like possibly Epic like the Titanic trying to turn... you can't just do it on the spot.

Though this will clearly mean a good win for the console market.

 

[Rangers]

I think this has been obvious, Cliffy voicing it doesn't really change anything, it was already known.

I think a distinction needs to be made when web based flash type games like scrabble, poker, etc are listed as a reason PC gaming is healthy..they may technically be PC gaming but they aren't the big budget boxed experience I want. It's the latter that is dying. They are NOT the same thing.

I also support Cliffy voicing support for a certain type of gamer, my type. *I* want Gears of War, I do *not* want Cooking Mama. Whether that makes me the minority or uncool these days, I dont care. Regardless, we will continue to be a very profitable market going forward, I believe in some ways continuing to surpass the newfound Nintendo-based casual market.

 

[tabs]

If Epic delivered half of what they said they would with UT3, I don't believe they would be saying this at all. Sure they'd still be pushing consoles more, as thats where the big bucks are, but blaming the lack of success of their latest "AAA" PC game on the gamers is pretty lame.

 

[DJ12]

The problem is they aren't making money, that's it.

He can talk about the PC scene being in disarray all he likes, but the problem is simple. It is all too easy to pirate PC games and on the consoles currently it's impossible on one of them, and requires some sort of modification on another that most people cannot be arsed to do, and even when it does become possible on both the percentage of people that will get modchips fitted is actually rather small.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Yeah, they are talking up the console games because their recent PC games have been so badly received. Not surprising given the very heavy console influences on their recent PC games (GoW and UT3), and the fact the PC versions of UT3 are still unfinished and incomplete, and so dismissed by the PC audience who had been quite literally hyped for years to expect a solid gold triple-A title.

I'm not surprised they're not making money on the PC. UT3 only sold about 33,000 copies in the first few weeks, and there are only 500 people playing online. That's not because of piracy, that's because no one wanted a poor game that takes three steps backwards for every step it takes forwards, and offers considerably less than the four year old UT2K4.

Epic needs to look in the mirror before pointing their fingers elsewhere, especially when other games like Stalker, Witcher, Sins Of The Solar Empire, Half-Life 2/Orange Box, WoW, Warhammer 40K+expansions, C&C Tiberium Wars, Supacom/Forged Alliance, Crysis, EvE Online etc are doing fine thank you very much.

 

[one]

OTOH there is a move like this

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33038

PC gaming alliance formed?
Mark Androvich 02:30 (BST) 13/02/2008

Official announcement may be made at GDC

Intel, Microsoft, Nvidia, AMD and other companies with a vested interested in keeping the PC alive as a gaming platform may be announcing a consortium dubbed the "PC Gaming Alliance."

The influence of DirectX may be reduced in future with slow adoption of Vista.

 

[Acert93]

The influence of DirectX may be reduced in future with slow adoption of Vista.

Are we reading the same link?

And besides making DX10 Vista-only, DX over the years has been a major catalyst in the PC space. Mark Rein actually had a good point a couple years back lamenting how PCs were shipping with fast dual core CPUs and crappy IGPs for graphics. There are a lot of issues squeezing the PC industry and causing issues, but a universal API on the PC platform has been a positive.

Of course someone rooting against MS and for Sony would very much like to see the PC market move away from DX, although I don't see the sense in such a move unless another API can move into the PC space, offer DX10 specs (as well as ship day/date with new hardware feature/roadmaps) on XP with same/better performance and perfect compatibility across a multitude of platforms as well as get a market push bigger and more effective than "Games for Windows" and so forth.

But that still doesn't address any of the real problems in the PC space. Actually, it just creates more.

 

[one]

Are we reading the same link?

And besides making DX10 Vista-only, DX over the years has been a major catalyst in the PC space. Mark Rein actually had a good point a couple years back lamenting how PCs were shipping with fast dual core CPUs and crappy IGPs for graphics. There are a lot of issues squeezing the PC industry and causing issues, but a universal API on the PC platform has been a positive.

Of course someone rooting against MS and for Sony would very much like to see the PC market move away from DX, although I don't see the sense in such a move unless another API can move into the PC space, offer DX10 specs (as well as ship day/date with new hardware feature/roadmaps) on XP with same/better performance and perfect compatibility across a multitude of platforms as well as get a market push bigger and more effective than "Games for Windows" and so forth.

But that still doesn't address any of the real problems in the PC space. Actually, it just creates more.

I don't think I suggested "move away from DX". Just reduced influence on what to come.

 

[cthellis42]

There's plenty of piracy that CAN occur on PC, but I still question the severity they claim. Just how much of it translates into actual "lost sales" as opposed to "were never going to get them to pay anyway?"

As well, the PC is a CONSTANTLY evolving platform, but when developers release games that are little more than pallette swaps from their efforts 5+ years ago, they're shocked by dwindling interest? When they expend absolutely ZERO effort in developing extra community tools and networking efforts, they think we're supposed to be appreciative? (I love CoD4 and all, but come on... The master servers are STILL a mess, and not even a frickin' FRIEND LIST?! No support for "Join Friend's Game" even though they're also distributed through Steam?)

As much as WoW has siphoned interest and attention from other sectors, one thing the MMO model has made perfectly clear is: Gamers will pay extra and play more if the game gets attention. But lots of games still release, patch something a few months later, and perhaps toss out a map or two six months in... but for the most part it seems like they're saving up for the long wait of the "yet another sequel." Console gamers are very much used to that, and only just now getting to know what "downloadable content" (and even "patches") are like--though it's to be noted that many developers/publishers have gotten all giddy about the prospects and do it very poorly. But it's been possible on PC for ages, and the MMO model has both shown and guided gamers over to expecting it and desiring it. Why are so many PC developers feeling grousy when they don't even experiment with it?

I'd be curious to see how sales trends for other games line up with the Battlefield series. They followed a fairly regular format until the release of the massively popular Battlefield 2--which is still an excellent game--at which point they also delivered the Special Forces expansion (offering very different and interestingly experimental gameplay), and the Euro Force and Armored Fury "booster packs," both of which have some of my favorite maps, and tweak the gameplay focus even more. Each release resurges interest, allows them to experiment with gameplay without unbalancing the main game everyone expects, gives them more data to go by for future games... 2142 shortly followed with its' future-y tweaking, but mainly adding a lot more customization options, and Northen Strike was a similarly well-crafted booster. It's common to bitch that it's just EA looking for ways to "soak," but that's two great games and four solid expansions (of varying size) in about 20 months, allowing for a lot of different experiences, and yet still WAY less expensive than paying for one modern MMO for that period of time. I call it "movement."


I suppose at this point devs are less likely to want to build in community features, but with Steam existing and just being downright excellent, it should be a pretty trivial matter to support THAT. But the basics (Friending, joining on games, voice chat...) should still all be at least PRESENT in some form, because otherwise it's just downright laziness. It's a similarly trivial matter to toss in some form of experience, customization, reward system, and games that do so well certainly have extra interest. Clan tools? Yeah, those would be nice, too. PC gamers in general and FPSers in particular tend to move around a lot (except those CS lost souls... ), but then we also have just about EVERY option out there to choose from, and we tend to pick up just about everything.

Older, more mature, more tech savvy, more used to change and embracing of it... more MONEY...

It doesn't take a whole lot here, guys. Just don't half-ass it.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

As a counterpoint, Will Wright (made a little game called The Sims that made far more money and is far more mainstream than anything Epic has done), recently said:

As for the PC market, Wright expressed his continued optimism for the platform. "Every generation it's like 'the PC's dead! The PC's dead!'," he said. But it carries on growing when consoles are flat for five years. At the moment I can get better graphics on my PC than I can on the PS3."

 

[Neb]

Yeah, they are talking up the console games because their recent PC games have been so badly received. Not surprising given the very heavy console influences on their recent PC games (GoW and UT3), and the fact the PC versions of UT3 are still unfinished and incomplete, and so dismissed by the PC audience who had been quite literally hyped for years to expect a solid gold triple-A title.

Half finished game with lots of bugs and incomplete stuff = Not good sales. Or did Cliffy B expect PC gamers to be mindless drones who buys game based on sequels/name without checking content (demos etc)? And I suspect many PC gamers already played GEoW on the xbox360, or just dont find it interesting since they already "been there done that".

I mean for console gamers UT3 may be a good game since it is probably their first UT game, their first step. On PC many already have played previous UT games and thus will find that UT3 is a step back in several areas. Obviously people expect improvements in the coming games from the series, or atleast keep functioning stuff.

I'm not surprised they're not making money on the PC. UT3 only sold about 33,000 copies in the first few weeks, and there are only 500 people playing online. That's not because of piracy, that's because no one wanted a poor game that takes three steps backwards for every step it takes forwards, and offers considerably less than the four year old UT2K4.

QFT.

Epic needs to look in the mirror before pointing their fingers elsewhere, especially when other games like Stalker, Witcher, Sins Of The Solar Empire, Half-Life 2/Orange Box, WoW, Warhammer 40K+expansions, C&C Tiberium Wars, Supacom/Forged Alliance, Crysis, EvE Online etc are doing fine thank you very much.

Exactly selling well and having a large user base pleased with the games. And then about piracy, of course it exists and of course it is bad but to what extent? I mean I've yet to see any solid numbers for more than a couple of games (and I mean numbers not percent). All I hear is,

"twice as many has pirated the game..."
"so where is your source to back that up?"
*Dead silence...*

 

[archie4oz]

And besides making DX10 Vista-only, DX over the years has been a major catalyst in the PC space. Mark Rein actually had a good point a couple years back lamenting how PCs were shipping with fast dual core CPUs and crappy IGPs for graphics. There are a lot of issues squeezing the PC industry and causing issues, but a universal API on the PC platform has been a positive.

I don't necessarily agree with the whole DX catalyst argument (unless you're framing it specifically at "Windows" and not at PC or just computer gaming in general). PC gaming was already a vibrant industry before DX came along, and all DX was was a way to circumvent limitations imposed by Windows to get DOS like performance. From there it became a catalyst, but for IHVs not so much for gaming. Actually I kinda agree w/Tim Sweeney that the wanton migration to DX has stiffled a lot of creativity in PC games in the race to accumulate the most feature bullet points.

As far as things are now, I think they're improving as more engine oriented tools are becoming more easily accessible and hardware oriented APIs are being more abstracted away but IMO it's probably a bit too late (at least for high-spec work). OTOH I think it's a vibrant platform for smaller scale indie stuff (as witnessed by the explosion of casual downloadable and flash games).

 

[cthellis42]

I'm not surprised they're not making money on the PC. UT3 only sold about 33,000 copies in the first few weeks, and there are only 500 people playing online. That's not because of piracy, that's because no one wanted a poor game that takes three steps backwards for every step it takes forwards, and offers considerably less than the four year old UT2K4.

QFT x2

I have UT3, but it's not very thrilling. Very pretty, but conventional and even a bit backwards UT gameplay.

In that case, Epic reaps what they sewed... They were making an engine first, and a game as an afterthought. The engine will probably make scads more than the game, so that's fine for them, but... they shouldn't really complain about the direct game sales themselves if they weren't going to advance in the genre like other players have. When you make an FPS first, the FPS has a better chance of selling.

The "split game design effort, and really more thrown at Gears of War" shows pretty plainly.

 

[Zassk]

There's plenty of piracy that CAN occur on PC, but I still question the severity they claim. Just how much of it translates into actual "lost sales" as opposed to "were never going to get them to pay anyway?"

If we can't blame piracy for awful sales, then the future of PC gaming is even bleaker, IMO. The only way out for the PC gaming industry is to improve sales, period. The status quo isn't acceptable. If there are no potential sales on the table, then PC gaming is dead.

 

[Nesh]

Piracy is huge on PCs. You can get just about any game from the internet. I do not know a single person that doesnt download his PC games from the internet. Especially now that broadband is common, kiss PC gaming goodbye. Everyone downloads and makes copies.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

I do not know a single person that doesnt download his PC games from the internet. Especially now that broadband is common, kiss PC gaming goodbye. Everyone downloads and makes copies.

Guess it depends on who you hang out with... I don't know a single person who does pirate games off of the internet (although now I guess I know at least one ). I'm not trying to take any moral stand on the issue, but there's certainly still a PC market or else no one would bother releasing anything there. Quite to the contrary, PC-only studios seem to be doing just fine and I find that there's a much larger variety of games available for PC than in the past... indeed I can count on one hand the number of (good) games that I play that are console-exclusives.

I also agree that piracy is a pretty unsubstantiated claim at this point for the poor performance of UE3. I played the demo, found it to have boring gameplay and merely adequate graphics and so I uninstalled the demo and have no motivation to purchase the full game. Gears is more of the same... adequate on console but it doesn't stack up to the competition on PC IMHO.

Conversely, after playing the Call of Duty 4 demo I rushed out and bought the game, soon after buying another copy for my wife and subsequently convincing 8 of my friends to purchase it as well (at least half of these total purchases were on Steam as well, which is another factor in market numbers).

I'm not saying that piracy isn't a problem, but I'll have to see more hard evidence to support the claim that it's crippling the PC games industry. There are many more factors at play, and I refuse to believe that the PC games industry is crippled anyways.

 

[Entropy]

Guess it depends on who you hang out with... I don't know a single person who does pirate games off of the internet (although now I guess I know at least one ).

I'm with Andy on this one - all the people I know who play games and have an income, buy all their games. I know a couple who don't work and do play pirated games, but the rest of us just can't spare the time to find the game, download it, getting it to run, having trouble with stability and patches.... ugh.

Instead you'll hear our blood vessels pop courtesy of the copy protection schemes, though, so maybe it evens out.

It is a shame that running a pirated game provides a better user experience (when it works) than having paid for the product. The publishers might consider doing something about that.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Piracy is huge on PCs. You can get just about any game from the internet. I do not know a single person that doesnt download his PC games from the internet. Especially now that broadband is common, kiss PC gaming goodbye. Everyone downloads and makes copies.

Piracy has been prevalent on the PC for decades. It hasn't killed it yet and its more difficult these days than its ever been. Why should we expect it to suddenly kill PC gaming now?

PC gaming isn't dying anyway. Its losing all its exclusive developers, there is no doubt at all of that. But that doesn't equal dying. Sony and MS have pretty much lost all of their exclusive developers aswell apart from first party stuff. The fact is that game development is more expensive today than it has ever been, and its getting worse. This drives developers to seek more platforms to publish their titles on and as a result, i'm seeing more console franchises showing up on PC than ever before and there's certainly no sign of that slowing.

People need to stop defining a platform by its exclusives as they are becoming a smaller and smaller defining feature (Wii excluded). Its pretty much down to price, performance and none gaming features these days.

 

[function]

I've seen a number of PC developers talk about how anti-piracy measures - even if consumer unfriendly and annoying - result in a statistically verifiable and substantial boost in sales during the (most significant) initial sales period (first week or two).

It's no surprise at all to see developers and publishers moving to platforms with more robust and consumer accepted anti-piracy measures.

Every "broadband enabled" PC now has the ability to locate and download pirated versions of games in hours if not minutes. Convenience is a big factor in "casual piracy".

 

[ERP]

I think WOW is a bigger factor in the decline of PC game sales than any other single thing in PC gaming. A PC game has to compete against time spent in these multiplayer games as well as just the financial investment. And I strongly believe WOW is as much a draw for it's social aspect as it is the game.

I know that for me to buy a PC game at this point it has to be something exceptional. And if it's cross platform in general I'll buy the 360 version because I know I'll get a good experience out of it.

Having said that I think there is still a place in the market for tripple A titles on the PC, but it is becoming harder to move units of generic "game software" on the platform.