Epic Sues Apple and Google due to Fortnite getting pulled [2020-08-13, 2021-05-03]

[Pressure]

I know it is implied by the name, credit card, but it is rarely used as a line of credit in Europe. Here most cards are simply debit cards backed by actual funds in a bank account.

 

[MfA]

There's no hypothetical world.

There is common sense though, you don't need to run an experiment to know everything is more expensive because of credit cards and non credit card users are subsidizing the benefits. Now Apple is going to make everything a little more expensive still.

It's regressive wealth transfer built on monopolies and oligopolies.

 

[AlphaWolf]

There is common sense though, you don't need to run an experiment to know everything is more expensive because of credit cards and non credit card users are subsidizing the benefits. Now Apple is going to make everything a little more expensive still.

It's regressive wealth transfer.

Which services have value, and how much? They are all wealth transfers.

Big businesses are all in the credit card business, running their own loyalty programs. I wouldn't hold my breath on Amazon (or any major retailer/etailer) charging you a fee to use their card.

 

[zed]

There's no hypothetical world. I get hundreds of dollars back every year that I would not if I used debit. If i paid cash or debit, I would get 0.

Mate you do understand that CC means the prices of said goods that you buy are more expensive, i.e. you get $100s back but youre prolly also paying $100s more. typically 2-4% (yes often esp in the USA they will levy this cost onto all users, not just the CC users, so it will be less than that maybe 1%)

A similar thing is in NZ I know someone who buys all her shopping from countdown supermarkets because each month or so she gains rewards
https://www.countdown.co.nz/onecard/how-it-works/onecard-food-rewards
"For every whole $10 you spend, you'll earn a Onecard point. Every 200 points gets you a $15 Onecard e-voucher!"
so you have to spend $2000 to get a $15 voucher, thus 0.75% discount

https://churnewzealand.com/new-zealand-supermarkets/
"Pak’nSave is clearly the cheapest across the board, nearly 10% cheaper the New World who were marginally ahead of Countdown."

I have tell her multiple times, shop at pak n save, you will be saving money overall, but I dont know why but its this cashback/reward thing triggers something in the lizard mind and she continues to shop at countdown.

Now AlphaWolf I'm not saying you would be better off if you didnt use your CC as USA seems to usually put the extra CC fees onto everyone, but the reality is overall the USA citizen is paying for the use of CC's.
Of course this is obvious, companies normally don't do things for free

 

[AlphaWolf]

Mate you do understand that CC means the prices of said goods that you buy are more expensive, i.e. you get $100s back but youre prolly also paying $100s more. typically 2-4% (yes often esp in the USA they will levy this cost onto all users, not just the CC users, so it will be less than that maybe 1%)

A similar thing is in NZ I know someone who buys all her shopping from countdown supermarkets because each month or so she gains rewards
https://www.countdown.co.nz/onecard/how-it-works/onecard-food-rewards
"For every whole $10 you spend, you'll earn a Onecard point. Every 200 points gets you a $15 Onecard e-voucher!"
so you have to spend $2000 to get a $15 voucher, thus 0.75% discount

https://churnewzealand.com/new-zealand-supermarkets/
"Pak’nSave is clearly the cheapest across the board, nearly 10% cheaper the New World who were marginally ahead of Countdown."

I have tell her multiple times, shop at pak n save, you will be saving money overall, but I dont know why but its this cashback/reward thing triggers something in the lizard mind and she continues to shop at countdown.

Now AlphaWolf I'm not saying you would be better off if you didnt use your CC as USA seems to usually put the extra CC fees onto everyone, but the reality is overall the USA citizen is paying for the use of CC's.
Of course this is obvious, companies normally don't do things for free

There is also advantages to the businesses who offer the service as well, what is that worth?

Here there are 4 major grocery chains... they all have rewards programs. So not making use of the program is just leaving money behind. And on any given day no one of them would be the cheapest on everything in a basket of items. So if you're telling someone to shop exclusively at a certain store to save money, you could be wrong. However paying 1 or 2% more might well be worth it if you can get all your shopping done at one location. You can save that in fuel and time.

I understand that businesses accept an expense by taking credit cards. They also incur costs on other things that may not benefit all customers. There is a benefit to them as well. Handling cash is also subsidized because there is a cost involved for the business, but they find that worthwhile. It's not as simple as credit cards are paid for by other customers any more than any service from which you don't benefit .

 

[MfA]

Which services have value, and how much?

That's an experiment which has been run, just make the people who use the services pay for them and they pretty much don't. Surcharges are deadly to credit cards. That's why it didn't penetrate much in Europe, but that's going to change as the EU changed the rules. By complete coincidence a fair amount of people in Brussels will get jobs in credit card related companies.

 

[Ike Turner]

Someone needs to pay for that lawsuit I guess ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1300795549571059714

 

[wco81]

Mate you do understand that CC means the prices of said goods that you buy are more expensive, i.e. you get $100s back but youre prolly also paying $100s more. typically 2-4% (yes often esp in the USA they will levy this cost onto all users, not just the CC users, so it will be less than that maybe 1%)

A similar thing is in NZ I know someone who buys all her shopping from countdown supermarkets because each month or so she gains rewards
https://www.countdown.co.nz/onecard/how-it-works/onecard-food-rewards
"For every whole $10 you spend, you'll earn a Onecard point. Every 200 points gets you a $15 Onecard e-voucher!"
so you have to spend $2000 to get a $15 voucher, thus 0.75% discount

https://churnewzealand.com/new-zealand-supermarkets/
"Pak’nSave is clearly the cheapest across the board, nearly 10% cheaper the New World who were marginally ahead of Countdown."

I have tell her multiple times, shop at pak n save, you will be saving money overall, but I dont know why but its this cashback/reward thing triggers something in the lizard mind and she continues to shop at countdown.

Now AlphaWolf I'm not saying you would be better off if you didnt use your CC as USA seems to usually put the extra CC fees onto everyone, but the reality is overall the USA citizen is paying for the use of CC's.
Of course this is obvious, companies normally don't do things for free

I've been to all three chains. There seems to be more of the Countdowns and New Worlds than Pak N Save though.

And they all take credit cards, no surcharges.

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

Epic Games asks court to prevent what it describes as Apple's "retaliation"

Epic Games filed for a preliminary injunction that would put its game back in the App Store and restore its developer account. The filing was made in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.
...
Apple had said it would allow “Fortnite” back into the store if Epic removed the direct payment feature. But Epic refused to do so, saying complying with Apple’s request would be “to collude with Apple to maintain their monopoly over in-app payments on iOS.”

 

[BRiT]

Are we not entertained?

 

[wco81]

Epic details how they're being harmed with Fortnite not in the iOS App. Store:

But in the new filing, Epic argues that more than its reputation has been harmed: “Daily active users on iOS have declined by over 60% since Fortnite’s removal from the App Store,” Epic claims. (It measured through September 2nd, in case you’re curious; by that point Fortnite had effectively split into two different games.)

FORTNITE ON IOS IS PRACTICALLY A THIRD OF THE ENTIRE GAME’S AUDIENCE
Epic says iOS is the biggest platform for Fortnite, too: 116 million registered users, or nearly a third of the 350 million registered users Epic says Fortnite has attracted in total. It also claims 63 percent of Fortnite users on iOS access Fortnite only on iOS, and that it’s the only way for many people to play the game.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/5/21423889/fortnite-epic-apple-preliminary-injunction-filing-ios-mac


So 60% decline in active users and contrary to what was speculated, iOS is the biggest platform, accounting for 1/3 of all users. Of those iOS users, 63% only play on iOS.

But again, even though it's the largest slice, Epic isn't pursuing reduction of the 30% fees charged by MS, Nintendo, Sony, etc.?

 

[Ike Turner]

Epic details how they're being harmed with Fortnite not in the iOS App. Store:



https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/5/21423889/fortnite-epic-apple-preliminary-injunction-filing-ios-mac


So 60% decline in active users and contrary to what was speculated, iOS is the biggest platform, accounting for 1/3 of all users. Of those iOS users, 63% only play on iOS.

But again, even though it's the largest slice, Epic isn't pursuing reduction of the 30% fees charged by MS, Nintendo, Sony, etc.?

Epic will have to show proof of this because AFAIIC this is a lie (but then again that's Epic's modus operandi..)

 

[Malo]

How many of those apparent iOS players have played Fortnite on iOS but signed up and play primarily on other platforms?

 

[Ike Turner]

TOP KEK TROLOLO!

Apple countersues Fortnite maker Epic Games, accusing it of 'self-help and subterfuge' - CNN

Apple on Tuesday counter-sued Epic Games, accusing the maker of the popular online video game Fortnite of stealing the 30% commissions the iPhone maker takes from app developers.

In a court filing, Apple accused Epic of "self-help and subterfuge" as it embarked on a plan of alleged "commission-theft" by including a workaround in Fortnite that gave players a discount on in-game currency if they paid Epic directly.

Apple is seeking a judgment from Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers finding that Epic breached its developer contract with Apple, as well as monetary damages.

"“Although Epic portrays itself as a modern corporate Robin Hood, in reality it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives from the App Store.”"

Sweeney is a Muppet.

Court filing:
https://www.scribd.com/document/475308825/Apple-Counterclaims-Against-Epic-Games

 

[BRiT]

I'm not sure I can take any more popcorn while watching this legal fiasco.

 

[Malo]

Not sure what they expected taking on Apple, who is very well known for going all the way with any litigation no matter how large or small.

 

[BRiT]

Yeah, it's so much worse than being a patent troll trying to take on NewEgg. Maybe they thought they had enough "fuck you money" to poke Apple, not realizing Apple has so much more?

 

[Malo]

Yeah, it's so much worse than being a patent troll trying to take on NewEgg. Maybe they thought they had enough "fuck you money" to poke Apple, not realizing Apple has so much more?

I think they were banking on more social pressure than they got.

 

[manux]

This is so sad that it's funny. MegaCorps obtain money from customers and feed the money to lawyers.

Zillion dollar business idea. Start a company to make dnn's to lawyer around and become the richest company in the world. GPT3 is scarily good. DNN to lawyer around might be feasible in future. It's interesting also in the sence that existing cases that have already been decided could be used to teach and test said dnn's. DNN's wouldn't need to be even perfect if they add enough value and human can do the last 10%. Scan internet and companies for possible infractions, analyze and when there is good enough hits use humans to decide who to sue and use the ai generated material to need less lawyers.

Ready Player One was such a good book. I start to feel scared.

 

[wco81]

Was Fortnite a surprise hit or did they really expect the kind of success it would have?

It must have been the former, or else they could have used their clout back then, though I think Apple would have said "fine, go elsewhere."