Do FPS fans want to go motion-based direct-aim?

[tongue_of_colicab]

I disagree. You still need good reaction time, that wont change. And you still need to be able to accuratly aim at high speed. Whether you are pointing a beam or moving a mouse does not really make much different.

I didn't become better playing fps games with the wii remote because of the things above. My reaction time still sucks and apperantly I'm not much better at fast wrist movements compared to hand movements either.

Now maybe it makes a difference on the really high level (you could wonder how important the pro level really is to selling games) but anyone how is a hardcore/pro fps gamer isn't going to bother with a controller anyway and will always want a mouse.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yes, and the better skilled players will also be those that have exceptional peripheral vision and the ability to quickly sort targets and prioritize threats in one frame. Well at least on PC. I haven't done any online on console, Reach is probably going to change that though. Memory of level layout and player styles, tactical thinking (predicting other players likely actions), ability to identify key points on a map, and more all play into whether you're going to consistently be on top or whether you're only going to occasionally be able to do well.

Anyway, aiming while important is only one of a multitude of skills required to be considered a skilled player. I've known quite a few peole from my heyday of online FPSing that were better shots than me, but I'd dominate them virtually every match. It'd be funny that people would spectate me suspecting I was a bot. And then after a match would remark. How do you do it? Your aim sucks.

Move if it does make aiming markedly easier, will help raise the level of play a bit. But it won't suddenly make an average player into a really good player. Then again, maybe online console FPS is vastly different from online PC FPS.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

Now maybe it makes a difference on the really high level (you could wonder how important the pro level really is to selling games) but anyone how is a hardcore/pro fps gamer isn't going to bother with a controller anyway and will always want a mouse.

A mouse and keyboard is strenuous to use in the living room. Custom console FPS controls (SplitFish ?) may be more suitable. In which case, Move may be attractive to some.

I am not sure if Move really offers more accuracy or better turning speed (probably up to individuals). They need to look for a more general advantage. e.g., if a controller like Move allows users to mix and stitch different/new actions quickly (i.e., no "deep" menu navigation), then that's where it will contribute the most.

If FPS evolves from basic gunplay, then it is possible for Move to stand out because it is more expressive than a fixed set of buttons.

 

[Rolf N]

I like pointer controls in fps games but I certainly don't want dual-stick controls to die. These things can coexist.

So what do I vote?

On the matter of competitive advantages coming from different control schemes, I subscribe to the idea of letting the player base settle this among themselves, just like they do with fighting games. Segregating players by input device only splinters the game's base, and makes it less active overall.

 

[corduroygt]

I have the fragfx, it's a PITA to use, haven't used it 2 weeks after I bought it, it's gathering dust in a drawer somewhere...
A mouse is just not practical in the living room and that's where I hope motion controllers will help.

 

[Danalys]

I thought Socom was going to be using some kind of variable reticle movement smoothing. Large movements wouldn't be smoothed but small ones that would be down to hand twitch would be.

 

[obonicus]

Well, that SOCOM video looked a lot like the much-hated mouse acceleration in PC games.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Well, that SOCOM video looked a lot like the much-hated mouse acceleration in PC games.

I'm assuming you mean mouse smoothing?

If so, then yes, as it introduces 1+ frames of control lag. Don't see it in options of new FPS games very much anymore.

Mouse acceleration was always controlled in the mouse control panel. This is more widely used by people. It doesn't introduce more control lag, but does require practice to get used to. It can be advantageous in having high sensitivity for sweeps of a room while maintaining slightly more stable aiming. Does require practice to use to full advantage.

Other people just buy mice that allow for on the fly DPI adjustments with the push of a button.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

i use my console while on bed so using move seems hard. Aiming in metroid using Wiimote already hard with my position >__<

still hoping proper mouse for console

moving mouse on bed is much easier than using analog or wiimote (my pc also playable from bed)

this is what it looks like (when my friends go home, i just put a small bed there )
http://www.gamexeon.com/forum/imagehosting/201005/44194be12fd993ca4.jpg (the pic will load slow for some countries)

 

[Prophecy2k]

Why has the discussion veered off towards a comparison of the Sony MOVE and PC mice for FPS gaming? :-S

The use of a mouse for FPS gaming on PS3 (or any console for that matter) is simply a non-issue... i.e. you're not gonna do it really... So in reality the only useful comparison in terms of control lag, accuracy, turning speed, aiming precision etc... is with MOVE and a trad controller.

In which case the MOVE i'm sure will trounce the gamepad on every front. To even intimate that analog sticks even offer comparable accuracy to the MOVE seems a little silly to me. Of course you're not gonna be able to aim as accurately with twin sticks than by simply pointing at a screen (Shifty already said this).

As far as i'm concerned, MOVE will offer a much better and more responsive feel to my FPS games than any control pad ever will.

I own a logitec air mouse on my PC and it's really nice to use for playing Crysis on my couch... takes a little getting used to but it's nice and responsive. I'd expect MOVE to play similarly, if not better as it should provide more accurate pointing than my air mouse (similar to the Wii i'd guess, which is also superior to my air mouse).

NOTE: Also, i bought a Splitfish and used it a grand total of 2 times since i bought it. Having to keep lifting the mouse off the tiny mouse-pad to recenter it was a royal PITA for me, and after struggling for hours fighting with the settings i gave up and went back to my controller.

 

[Acert93]

Why has the discussion veered off towards a comparison of the Sony MOVE and PC mice for FPS gaming? :-S

The use of a mouse for FPS gaming on PS3 (or any console for that matter) is simply a non-issue... i.e. you're not gonna do it really...

Thousands and Thousands of gamers use mice on the PS3 and Xbox 360 + untold numbers with HTPC in the living room.

 

[patsu]

i use my console while on bed so using move seems hard. Aiming in metroid using Wiimote already hard with my position >__<

still hoping proper mouse for console

moving mouse on bed is much easier than using analog or wiimote (my pc also playable from bed)

this is what it looks like (when my friends go home, i just put a small bed there )
http://www.gamexeon.com/forum/imagehosting/201005/44194be12fd993ca4.jpg (the pic will load slow for some countries)

The laptop-like setup is easier because the screen, keyboard and mouse are integrated or close together. The problem with mouse and TV in my livingroom is the strenuous neck angle.

To use something like Move/Wiimote/SplitFish in bed, you can either lean back or forward. The issue may be the elevation of your TV or monitor w.r.t. your bed. If your TV is set up at the right viewing angle, it should not be a problem.

 

[corduroygt]

Thousands and Thousands of gamers use mice on the PS3 and Xbox 360 + untold numbers with HTPC in the living room.

Compared to tens of millions that use gamepads...

 

[dobwal]

I want the traditional control scheme along with motion aiming. I would like a redesigned controller which still allows for dual sticks as well as motion aiming.

Take your basic PS3 controller make it alittle larger and rotate the right side of the controller (stick and trigger) 90 degrees along the z axis so that the right trigger faces the left side of the controller and the stick faces perpendicular to you instead of parallel. This would require the opposite for a left handed person.

Basically, you would hold it like a sub m.gun.

There would be no need for recentering. Aiming would be vastly more robust and even superior to keyboard and mouse especially with sights placed on top of the controller. This would allow for greater freedom level of control than currently possible. The only caveat is how well and easy the typical gamer could adapt to such control scheme, which for me would seem like a rather small learning curve especially for those that FPS game.

 

[orangpelupa]

The laptop-like setup is easier because the screen, keyboard and mouse are integrated or close together. The problem with mouse and TV in my livingroom is the strenuous neck angle.

yeah i guess in your condition Move will be a good choice.

To use something like Move/Wiimote/SplitFish in bed, you can either lean back or forward. The issue may be the elevation of your TV or monitor w.r.t. your bed. If your TV is set up at the right viewing angle, it should not be a problem.

currently if i use wiimote to play shooter, the wiimote will hit my LCD Monitor. There only 30-40cm space between Monitor and me.
so i gave-up playing metroid.

but if i move the furniture, maybe i can make some more space. Its one big comicself.. very heavy. Last time i moved it around, i need to remove all the comic books, move, and put all back

 

[patsu]

I want the traditional control scheme along with motion aiming. I would like a redesigned controller which still allows for dual sticks as well as motion aiming.

Take your basic PS3 controller make it alittle larger and rotate the right side of the controller (stick and trigger) 90 degrees along the z axis so that the right trigger faces the left side of the controller and the stick faces perpendicular to you instead of parallel. This would require the opposite for a left handed person.

Basically, you would hold it like a sub m.gun.

There would be no need for recentering. Aiming would be vastly more robust and even superior to keyboard and mouse especially with sights placed on top of the controller. This would allow for greater freedom level of control than currently possible. The only caveat is how well and easy the typical gamer could adapt to such control scheme, which for me would seem like a rather small learning curve especially for those that FPS game.

Have you tried the last GunCon ? It has a trigger and an analog stick, similar to what you want above ("Hold it like a machine gun" and walk using the analog stick). It was rather confusing and tiring to aim. The DS3, Move, mouse and SplitFish are more comfortable because you can rest your wrist on your laps (or coffee table, couch and bed).

currently if i use wiimote to play shooter, the wiimote will hit my LCD Monitor. There only 30-40cm space between Monitor and me.
so i gave-up playing metroid.

but if i move the furniture, maybe i can make some more space. Its one big comicself.. very heavy. Last time i moved it around, i need to remove all the comic books, move, and put all back

Yes, I am interested to see how close you can play with Move also. My office PS3 setup is similar to a PC.

If I were to move the PS3 to my bedroom (to play in bed), I'd put it on a rolling stand near the end of my bed.

 

[dobwal]

Have you tried the last GunCon ? It has a trigger and an analog stick, similar to what you want above ("Hold it like a machine gun" and walk using the analog stick). It was rather confusing and tiring to aim. The DS3, Move, mouse and SplitFish are more comfortable because you can rest your wrist on your laps (or coffee table, couch and bed).

I have seen the guncon 3 and while it looks like a gun it not held natually like one nor does the ergonomics of the controller seem all that well thought out. Im talking placing the both sticks where your thumbs naturally rest during game play. Basically place your hands how they naturally fit on a ps3 controller now turn your right hand 45 degrees to your left. The way you naturally hold the controller with each individual hand wouldn't change, only the orientation of the each hand in relation to each other would.

The right stick on the guncon 3 is not naturally placed because you operating your thumb in a way thats not a natural resting position which can lead to fatigue. And the position of the left stick off center to the left is unnatural also. If you move the left hand from off center left to directly in front of your right hand it would allow you to hold both your arms close to body with your elbows pointing down alleviating the fatigue that you would experience holding the controller away from you body or having your left arm cocked backwards (elbow out) to accomodate the guncon.

The guncon places more priority on form (ohh it looks like one). I want one that place more priority on function, which gives you natural aim while mitigating the potential for fatigue.

 

[obonicus]

currently if i use wiimote to play shooter, the wiimote will hit my LCD Monitor. There only 30-40cm space between Monitor and me.
so i gave-up playing metroid.

It's not even that. I'm usually about a meter away from my TV, and the pointer controls don't work at that distance. I have to move out to like two meters away. It works fine for something that doesn't use the pointer, of course.

 

[patsu]

...

For me, the placement was not too bad on GunCon. I can reach them intuitively and comfortably. It's the control scheme that's confusing ^_^

... plus the need to lift it up.

It's not even that. I'm usually about a meter away from my TV, and the pointer controls don't work at that distance. I have to move out to like two meters away. It works fine for something that doesn't use the pointer, of course.

Do you know what's the closest tracking distance for PS Move ?

 

[Arwin]

If the camera can see the move it works. It even works quite well when it doesn't apparently. Wasn't there an early engadget demo where one guy tried to break it?