Digital Foundry and console warriors alternate realities *spawn*

[Cyan]

What's controversial about it?

It's not a very detailed statement, and it doesn't go into the finer aspects of how the phenomenon occurs, but it's a fair representation that's supported by the data and analysis later in the article. Even people who don't think the performance is a problem don't usually find the claim of running at 59fps to be particularly controversial.


DF's framerate graph uses a 1-second time-average; during seconds where there was a stutter, the graph reads 59fps, and during seconds where a stutter did not occur, the graph reads 60fps. There's no rounding foul play happening.

Occasionally the stutter does not occur. Presumably there's a large task that gets executed every 64 frames that usually goes over budget but sometimes does not. This isn't unique to the new footage, though, and the original DF article explicitly mentions this clustered behavior (i.e. they did point out that the "59fps" phenomenon wasn't happening fully 100% of the time, just most of the time).

You sound a bit like Shifty. Anyways, he lives here, he is used to Beyond3D which is la-la-la land compared to other places and he is very innocent, I can tell you. People around the world read those articles, Eurogamer is published in several languages, with the main Digital Foundry articles being translated as is, literally, from the main article, into many languages.

In the big world... DF point out an issue that a normal mortal didn't know, the 59 fps little detail becomes a phenomenon, thread titles in forums point it out. Some people ask for Iwata's demission.

That's for how much DF articles mean squat. Additionally, in certain place some forumers work for the companies --I know two people in a forum who work for Sony, one of them openly acknowledges that, the other didn't but well... nothing of what I've read from them make them look like rabble-rousers.

Then there is some people who create gibe like threads. ("teacher hits the head of her son with a Xbox controller", "girl burns her house because her Xbox was switched on for a very long time", "drunk man is arrested after sending bomb hoaxes using his Xbox", etc etc, subtle Xbox/PS/WiiU is the devil thread, whatever floats your boat)...

How can't you live in a state of constant tension when that happens? Despite his innocence, wish those places had a moderator like Shifty after all. Another moderator I liked is Mr. Fixit, from the good ol' days of Mrfixitonline.com , a now disappeared page.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Which war? Which battle? Which win?

It doesn't matter who won, only that Arsenal lost

 

[mrcorbo]

You sound a bit like Shifty. Anyways, he lives here, he is used to Beyond3D which is la-la-la land compared to other places and he is very innocent, I can tell you. People around the world read those articles, Eurogamer is published in several languages, with the main Digital Foundry articles being translated as is, literally, from the main article, into many languages.

In the big world... DF point out an issue that a normal mortal didn't know, the 59 fps little detail becomes a phenomenon, thread titles in forums point it out. Some people ask for Iwata's demission.

That's for how much DF articles mean squat. Additionally, in certain place some forumers work for the companies --I know two people in a forum who work for Sony, one of them openly acknowledges that, the other didn't but well... nothing of what I've read from them make them look like rabble-rousers.

Then there is some people who create gibe like threads. ("teacher hits the head of her son with a Xbox controller", "girl burns her house because her Xbox was switched on for a very long time", "drunk man is arrested after sending bomb hoaxes using his Xbox", etc etc, subtle Xbox/PS/WiiU is the devil thread, whatever floats your boat)...

How can't you live in a state of constant tension when that happens? Despite his innocence, wish those places had a moderator like Shifty after all. Another moderator I liked is Mr. Fixit, from the good ol' days of Mrfixitonline.com , a now disappeared page.

The solution is to not care so much what people say about Xbox/PS/<-"insert game system here" on the internet.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You sound a bit like Shifty. Anyways, he lives here, he is used to Beyond3D which is la-la-la land compared to other places and he is very innocent.

And with the help of my lawyers, I expect to keep it that way.

 

[HTupolev]

In the big world... DF point out an issue that a normal mortal didn't know, the 59 fps little detail becomes a phenomenon, thread titles in forums point it out. Some people ask for Iwata's demission.

That's not really what actually happened on any kind of significant scale. The "59fps" thing did make a splash across the internet, but the large majority of posts I saw on the matter were agreeing that it was minor, saying they didn't see it, or even praising Nintendo for being so awesome that such a minor issue is notable.

DF's comments occasionally ignite powder kegs, but you're calling out an instance where the internet practically turned into an echo chamber of DF's sentiments.

 

[BRiT]

PC specs improve over time. The CPU in even the most basic PC used for gaming far outclasses the CPU in the PS4 already. How many generations of Intel CPUs do you figure it will be before the integrated graphics in one or more of their CPUs outclass the Radeon HD 7850+-class integrated GPU in the PS4 both in performance and capability?

PCs are being replaced by mobile devices by anyone who isnt over the hill. I challenge the continually increasing numbers claim.

 

[mrcorbo]

PCs are being replaced by mobile devices by anyone who isnt over the hill. I challenge the continually increasing numbers claim.

The quote was "percentage of PCs". The percentage of the overall number will increase.

 

[BRiT]

The quote was "percentage of PCs". The percentage of the overall number will increase.

Ah yes, my bad. Though that's assuming the baseline capabilities increase instead of just getting cheaper and moving the scale downwards. But I cant really imagine even the low end Atoms being worse than the Jaguar cores. So I can see percentage of PCs capable as growing, as you stated.

 

[pjbliverpool]

PCs are being replaced by mobile devices by anyone who isnt over the hill. I challenge the continually increasing numbers claim.

I'd be curious to see your sources that state everyone still gaming on PC's is "over the hill". Granted lower end PC's and especially laptops are losing out to phones and tablets while discrete mobile GPU's are also losing out to APU's but I haven't seen any strong evidence suggesting that applies to the higher end gaming segment, particularly on desktops (which is the relevant segment in the context of talking about the number of PC's that are above console performance).

You asked mcorbo for citation that the number of PC's that exceed console performance was growing (granted he said percentage and not total number) and I'm on the mobile right now so it's not practical to look but I'd be willing to bet the percentage of systems exceeding that performance level on steam has gone up year on year since before the consoles launch while at the same time the overall steam userbase has gone up too.

 

[BRiT]

I'm merely going off my experienced empirical evidence. My nieces, newphews, their friends, my younger cousins, coworker's children, and users on the other forums I run tend to be replacing their PCs and consoles with mobile tablets or phones.

 

[MrFox]

There's a shift from PC to mobile, that's for sure, but I'm not seeing this for gaming specifically. At least not in the context of $70 AAA games. It's solitaire being dethroned by angry birds.

However Ubisoft and EA earnings are showing in the platform breakdown that full games unit sales are not shifting in the PC direction. The claims that PC gaming is coming back to kill consoles have been repeatedly proven false.

Consoles are still king. If you mess with the king you have to kill the king! (I'm I doing this right?)

 

[goonergaz]

I'm merely going off my experienced empirical evidence. My nieces, newphews, their friends, my younger cousins, coworker's children, and users on the other forums I run tend to be replacing their PCs and consoles with mobile tablets or phones.

Have you ever thought that maybe people you consider 'over the hill' are actually those with the income and time to support their hobby? And that those entering that part of their life might expand - I am of the generation that grew up with pong, my kids are growing up and begining to leave home, I'm getting more free time (and cash) and the lure of PCs is real (and I know others who have already migrated).

I'm not saying it will replace my console game time - I think rather compliment it.

 

[Jwm]

I'm merely going off my experienced empirical evidence. My nieces, newphews, their friends, my younger cousins, coworker's children, and users on the other forums I run tend to be replacing their PCs and consoles with mobile tablets or phones.

And MS wants you to dock your phone in Win10 to be used with a monitor and input devices.

 

[pjbliverpool]

The claims that PC gaming is coming back to kill consoles have been repeatedly proven false.

Have people actually been claiming that lol? I though it was generally the opposite claim, i.e. PC games are dying and will be dead within a year or two (for at least the last 10 years).

Incidentally I just did a very rough and ready count of PC GPU's in the Steam survey that are above console level performance (taken to be 660Ti and up or 7870 and up) and based on the percentage of those GPU's in the market and assuming the total size of the steam survey is 125m PC's (as recently reported here) then you're looking at about 18m PC's out there which exceed the PS4's performance. That's as compared to the recently announced 22 million PS4 sales.

I'm not sure what games they're all buying though!

 

[dobwal]

I'm merely going off my experienced empirical evidence. My nieces, newphews, their friends, my younger cousins, coworker's children, and users on the other forums I run tend to be replacing their PCs and consoles with mobile tablets or phones.

Replacing as in, "I bought a new iphone 6 so I am junking my PC when I get home" or like, "I got a ipad and iphone so I don't need to upgrade my PC as readily as I am use to doing".

What you perceive as replacing, I perceive is as a diversification and expansion of the personal computing space. Where tabs and phones aren't replacing consoles or PCs, but rather serving as complementary devices that service particular circumstances.

Most of what everyone does on computers boils down to productivity based activities, communication, games and social media. But each type of device seem to have carved out their own niche in each space. Most people aren't trying to write papers on a console or a phone, while most aren't trying to play Angry Birds on a console or a PC.

Most of my perception and assumptions are related to more western countries. The more undeveloped countries are different because devices like PCs and consoles are mostly a luxury so cheap smartphones and tabs are still seeing massive growth in those countries. Smartphones and tabs for these countries are analogous of the PCs in the 80s and 90s.

But in more westernized countries the concept of only being able to afford a single cheap device isn't whats driving the market. Because western market aren't driven by ultra expensive hardware as general computing devices are becoming less expensive by the day so there isn't a strong motivation for users to attempt to consolidate all their computing needs into one device. Ultimately whats stymieing PC sales is PC devices aren't the only option now and light computing on the go has more compelling and cheaper options. That doesn't make PC useless in the eyes of most users just that its uses become more tailored to the form factor and the performance it offers. Where most used to have a PC or two to service most of their computing needs, now most have a plethora of devices. Each device serving particular needs rather than one dominant device serving all needs.

We've been down that sole computing device road before and there is no need to go back. There is a space in our homes for all these devices.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There is a space in our homes for all these devices.

But not in our hearts! Where do your allegiances truly lie?

 

[MrFox]

Have people actually been claiming that lol?

This is the internet. Every possible opinion have been said.

Console gaming is still dead - and the PC is only getting better
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...ead-and-the-pc-is-only-getting-better-1289367

Doom Creator John Romero: PC "Decimating" Console, F2P Has Killed 100 AAA Studios
www.gamespot.com/articles/doom-creator-john-romero-pc-decimating-console-f2p/1100-6421334/

Console gaming is dead - everything good is happening on PC right now
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...ing-good-is-happening-on-pc-right-now-1260162

Console gaming is approaching an evolutionary dead end
http://venturebeat.com/community/2014/08/02/console-gaming-is-approaching-an-evolutionary-dead-end/

 

[pjbliverpool]

This is the internet. Every possible opinion have been said.

Console gaming is still dead - and the PC is only getting better
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...ead-and-the-pc-is-only-getting-better-1289367

Doom Creator John Romero: PC "Decimating" Console, F2P Has Killed 100 AAA Studios
www.gamespot.com/articles/doom-creator-john-romero-pc-decimating-console-f2p/1100-6421334/

Console gaming is dead - everything good is happening on PC right now
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...ing-good-is-happening-on-pc-right-now-1260162

Console gaming is approaching an evolutionary dead end
http://venturebeat.com/community/2014/08/02/console-gaming-is-approaching-an-evolutionary-dead-end/

Interesting. I'm not saying I agree with any of the above but given they were all written within the last year I'm not sure there's been enough time for them to have been repeatedly proven false. Personally I think there's plenty of life left in both platforms (the rise of mobile notwithstanding) but I've been honestly surprised by the relative strength of the PC over the last couple of years (in terms of game releases and general developer support). To be honest if you'd have asked me 10 years ago, I'd have probably agreed that consoles would have killed off PC gaming by now.

 

[MrFox]

It's a cycle and the message is based on conflict of interest. In 2006, Phil Harisson said PC was dead because of the power of the Cell Processor or something like that, I don't remember.

I wonder what happened two years ago for this new focus on PC killing consoles, let's look at a few major events...

2010: Microsoft's Kudo Tsunoda claims PC gaming is completely dead due to Halo.

2012: There was a huge effort from many studios and execs to defend online-DRM after multiple clusterfucks, claims that PC is dead because piracy, claims that used games is piracy. Expectations that next gen would be discless.

2012: EA said they're going 100% digital. Big proponent of online-DRM, so is Ubisoft. Messaging has begun.

2013: DRM fiasco...

2013: EA throws Microsoft under the bus about DRM as if they never wanted online DRM.

2014: PS4 gains major market share over Microsoft.

2014: Microsoft is working toward a "renewed focus on Windows and PC gaming," Phil Spencer said at GDC

2014-2015: Media starts getting articles claiming PC killed consoles.

(I might have a few of these wrong, but the idea is the same, it's whatever is profitable to say)

 

[pjbliverpool]

2014: Microsoft is working toward a "renewed focus on Windows and PC gaming,"

That one happens every year. It must be the least believed claim in the computer industry.