Digital Foundry and console warriors alternate realities *spawn*

The difference from football is that DF's analysis has squat outcomes. Seriously, what actual impact is there from DF making any recommendation? At most, some people with both an XB1 and PS4 who didn't read the article and jumped straight to the recommendation and picked PS4 over XB1 will have had a lower framerate, higher resolution copy of the same game, whcih may or may not suit their preference.

How many people around the world is that? How many people actually care, unlike a major football team with hundreds of thousands (or millions even worldwide) of fans wanting a fair outcome from an important match?

I can understand you have strong emotional ties to DF, and that's your prerogative. But really, it doesn't matter. The rest of the world doesn't care. MS isn't losing money because of this. Devs aren't going to abandon XB1 because of DF recommendations. Games aren't going to play any worse if DF recommens against that console. DF articles are only of value in general interest, and console warring which no-one in their right mind would engage in.
Deep down you may be right, but the outcomes sometimes, just sometimes, aren't as squat as they appear to be, simply because there will be someone who will mock you or create threads to talk bad about your console or whatever. Beyond3D is a different place, but you might not want to see what's out there. Certain things that you mention will always exist, and have nothing to do with any kind of engagement
 
Here's a simple thought for you to consider, Cyan. How often have you seen a developer complain about Digital Foundry's analysis, and in those rare cases, has Digital Foundry just simply ignored them or corrected their pieces. And now the reverse - how many developers have fixed issues that Digital Foundry (not nearly always the only ones to notice, but usually giving the best suggestions on what was wrong or the most precise measurements) pointed out in their analysis? And who is worse off for this?

For all the complaints of partiality that Digital Foundry has received from all sides especially now that the scales have shifted (which is telling enough), they really show the partiality of those complaining more than anything else, in my opinion.
Fair enough. I don't know Arwin, it's just that it wouldn't be the first time Digital Foundry has admitted to botching certain captures. I pointed out at one issue they didn't see -don't blame them in this case though, just sayin'- in the PC version of FC4, like the black crush. IT wasn't easy to spot because some captures were just perfect but others were wrong because of said black crush.

The thing is that all eyes are on their articles, and their wording show bias at times, this quote:

We get v-sync for both, but only PS4 is capped to 30fps with stutters below during gameplay. Meanwhile Xbox One runs the gamut between 20-40fps, which causes its own frame-pacing issues.

It wouldn't cost them much to add this line (although the game almost always runs over 30 fps on the X1 version during actual gameplay, cutscenes are more inconsistent), it seemed as if they wanted to paint the X1 version in a bad light and their line "the Xbox One suffers from running at 900p" is also a bit unfair, because like 99% of the people playing the game on the X1 are enjoying this fantastic game. I don't want to read much into their words --if not Shifty will blame that on strong emotional ties, his usual predicament. :)

Anyways, kudos to you.
 
It wouldn't cost them much to add this line (although the game almost always runs over 30 fps on the X1 version during actual gameplay, cutscenes are more inconsistent).
That's what the body of the article says. It describes the pros and cons of both platforms.

Also, full analysis with the expected recommendation - buy PC! for me, DF head-to-heads always favoured PC and then, last gen, 360 by and large. Now it's Sony's console which surprise surprise has the meatier GPU. There's no partisanship at DF. It's highly obvious and predictable results only of interest because different platforms sometimes get different choices and even rendering techniques.

Oh, and in the comments sections of DF articles there's always someone complaining of pro-MS attitudes at DF, and then others complaining of Sony favouritism, depending on the article. Pure console-warsery.
 
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Yeah, let's be honest - the PS4 has had some comfortable wins yet they have said at the end that the XBO version is perfectly playable and fine - so it's not like they are kicking MS/XB.

@Cyan all things being equal the PS4 version will be the better version - this much must be true, the framerate 'win' for XBO is marginal but the pixel 'win' for PS4 is substantial, to put it into a football context XBO 1 PS4 2. Last gen (for me) free online play was an important factor and something DF didn't even consider in a face-off.

Edit - also @Cyan NX gamer agrees the PS4 performs better due to the lock.
 
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Pure console-warsery

Damn that was several pages of exactly this, I'm honestly starting to think the main graph in DF would better off being the frame time graph not the always misleading Avg.FPS. Been playing this on my now min. spec PC (2500k/7870/8GB) and the stutteriness is making me hanker after that DX12 goodness to at least try and edge my PC towards the smoother PS4 delivery :(
 
Damn that was several pages of exactly this, I'm honestly starting to think the main graph in DF would better off being the frame time graph not the always misleading Avg.FPS. Been playing this on my now min. spec PC (2500k/7870/8GB) and the stutteriness is making me hanker after that DX12 goodness to at least try and edge my PC towards the smoother PS4 delivery :(

It wouldn't make any difference since the game isn't remotely CPU limited so the 2500k is more than enough for completely smooth frame rates (proven by DF's frame time graph running on an i3).

If the game is stuttering on your PC it's more likely a GPU issue born out of running at too high settings. DF's article shows that a solid 30fps (as solid as the PS4 at least) is possible on a 750Ti at consoles settings and a 7870 is a fair bit faster in this game at similar settings:

http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-RPG-The_Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt-game-new-1920_h_off.jpg


I'd recommend matching the consoles settings as below, then running the game with CCC vsync on rather than the in game setting in combination with a 30fps frame lock through RTSS. I think you'll be looking at a completely perfect 33.33ms frame time on every frame and may even be able to turn a few settings up and still hit that.

V-Sync: On
Resolution: 1920x1080
Nvidia Hairworks: Off
Number of Background Characters: Low (console actually seems lower than this)
Shadow Quality: Medium
Terrain Quality: Medium
Water Quality: High
Grass Density: Medium
Texture Quality: Ultra
Foliage Visibility Range: Medium
Detail Level: Medium
Ambient Occlusion: SSAO
All post effects on except vignetting.
 
Yeah, let's be honest - the PS4 has had some comfortable wins yet they have said at the end that the XBO version is perfectly playable and fine - so it's not like they are kicking MS/XB.

@Cyan all things being equal the PS4 version will be the better version - this much must be true, the framerate 'win' for XBO is marginal but the pixel 'win' for PS4 is substantial, to put it into a football context XBO 1 PS4 2. Last gen (for me) free online play was an important factor and something DF didn't even consider in a face-off.

Edit - also @Cyan NX gamer agrees the PS4 performs better due to the lock.
Yes, PS4 did. XBO is improving every day, if you compare the first CoD at 720p and the second at something like 1080p..., now the XB1 version is the one with the better framerate. BF4 was great on the PS4 and bad on the XBO, but now Hardline performs better on the X1, and Unity too. Most games are catered to the PS4 architecture, simply because of raw power. If only DF gave more credit to more platforms...

That's what the body of the article says. It describes the pros and cons of both platforms.

Also, full analysis with the expected recommendation - buy PC! for me, DF head-to-heads always favoured PC and then, last gen, 360 by and large. Now it's Sony's console which surprise surprise has the meatier GPU. There's no partisanship at DF. It's highly obvious and predictable results only of interest because different platforms sometimes get different choices and even rendering techniques.

Oh, and in the comments sections of DF articles there's always someone complaining of pro-MS attitudes at DF, and then others complaining of Sony favouritism, depending on the article. Pure console-warsery.

In their most recent article they wrote that now Borderlands runs at an almost perfect 1080p and 60 fps on the "PS4 and Xbox One", literally. The "and" was highlighted in italics, as if saying, "the game can run at 1080p 60 fps on the X1 too, can you believe it?". They are doubting the graphical capabilities of the consoles.

Still to me their most controversial article to date was the one they wrote about Mario Kart 8 for the WiiU, where they pinned down the framerate of the console. I mean the now legendary to me, the 59 fps thing. :unsure:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-mario-kart-8

For your money that issue is an irrelevance, and irrational.

Plus, there are other flaws in their articles. They talk about budget PCs trying to compare them with consoles, performance wise. Okay, that's neat, but the problem is that those PCs don't run games like consoles and are like 300€ more expensive.

They have a PC with a Intel i3 processor as the CPU for their *budget* PC, and those PCs usually cost around 600€. Why is the i3 PC a budget PC when an Intel G3220 CPU would be a much fairer comparison and a PC with that CPU could realistically cost what new gen consoles cost now?
 
Yes, PS4 did. XBO is improving every day, if you compare the first CoD at 720p and the second at something like 1080p..., now the XB1 version is the one with the better framerate. BF4 was great on the PS4 and bad on the XBO, but now Hardline performs better on the X1, and Unity too. Most games are catered to the PS4 architecture, simply because of raw power. If only DF gave more credit to more platforms...

In their most recent article they wrote that now Borderlands runs at an almost perfect 1080p and 60 fps on the "PS4 and Xbox One", literally. The "and" was highlighted in italics, as if saying, "the game can run at 1080p 60 fps on the X1 too, can you believe it?". They are doubting the graphical capabilities of the consoles.

Still to me their most controversial article to date was the one they wrote about Mario Kart 8 for the WiiU, where they pinned down the framerate of the console. I mean the now legendary to me, the 59 fps thing. :unsure:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-mario-kart-8

For your money that issue is an irrelevance, and irrational.

Plus, there are other flaws in their articles. They talk about budget PCs trying to compare them with consoles, performance wise. Okay, that's neat, but the problem is that those PCs don't run games like consoles and are like 300€ more expensive.

The issue at hand is that they use a Intel i3 processor as the CPU for their *budget* PC, but those PCs usually cost around 600€. Why is the i3 PC a budget PC when an Intel G3220 CPU would be a fairer comparison and a PC with that CPU could realistically cost what new gen consoles cost now?
Were you concerned in the previous generation when the 360 was getting the nod?

As was already pointed out, DF has always been accused of bias its just that now Xbox is the platform receiving greater scrutiny.
 
Plus, there are other flaws in their articles. They talk about budget PCs trying to compare them with consoles, performance wise. Okay, that's neat, but the problem is that those PCs don't run games like consoles

Except DF post comparison video's complete with frame rate and frame time graphs showing that they do.

They have a PC with a Intel i3 processor as the CPU for their *budget* PC, and those PCs usually cost around 600€. Why is the i3 PC a budget PC when an Intel G3220 CPU would be a much fairer comparison and a PC with that CPU could realistically cost what new gen consoles cost now?

They never tried to claim that the budget PC was as cheap as console and €600 is "budget" by PC standards.
 
Were you concerned in the previous generation when the 360 was getting the nod?

As was already pointed out, DF has always been accused of bias its just that now Xbox is the platform receiving greater scrutiny.
:smile2::D Let me tell you temesgen that the pc is getting the nod in their articles now. Still, the console version, like most console versions, is like the pc version, but seven times better in every conceivable way #consolegamingmasterrace
 
Still, the console version, like most console versions, is like the pc version, but seven times better in every conceivable way #consolegamingmasterrace

I think you'll find it's 7.23x to be exact. You should be more accurate next time!
 
In their most recent article they wrote that now Borderlands runs at an almost perfect 1080p and 60 fps on the "PS4 and Xbox One", literally. The "and" was highlighted in italics, as if saying, "the game can run at 1080p 60 fps on the X1 too, can you believe it?". They are doubting the graphical capabilities of the consoles.
Why wouldn't they? The paper specs suggest that the PS4 has greater graphical capability, developers have suggested that the PS4 is more capable, and comparisons between games tend to indicate that it has greater GPU throughput. So if the XB1 manages to keep up, it's an interesting result and emphasis is appropriate.

Still to me their most controversial article to date was the one they wrote about Mario Kart 8 for the WiiU, where they pinned down the framerate of the console. I mean the now legendary to me, the 59 fps thing. :unsure:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-mario-kart-8

For your money that issue is an irrelevance, and irrational.
It's a patterned stutter on even interval. Many won't be bothered, but it'll grind some people's gears. It's not like they were overly harsh on it; they flat-out said that it wouldn't impact playability and that a majority of players wouldn't even notice it. They gave it a lengthy discussion because it was an interesting quirk.
 
:smile2::D Let me tell you temesgen that the pc is getting the nod in their articles now. Still, the console version, like most console versions, is like the pc version, but seven times better in every conceivable way #consolegamingmasterrace
Some might point to the call for the PC as evidence of PlayStation hate, there were a decent number of gamers who gleefully awaited DF face offs who now say if power matters buy a PC.

Personally I don't care, last generation 360 was arguably better about half the time, equal about 25% and the PS3 for the remainder.

Unless you owned both the differences however were small and didn't impact gameplay.

Things might play out similarly this time and again I'm not sure it matters that much.
 
Well, I just hope they use dynamic resolution more, it's a fun tech f you use to preserve the framerate at all costs.
Except DF post comparison video's complete with frame rate and frame time graphs showing that they do.



They never tried to claim that the budget PC was as cheap as console and €600 is "budget" by PC standards.
If they make comparisons, you must keep things objective.

They wrote an article, whose link I don't have, time ago on how to build a budget PC with the performance of consoles (is it said pc the one they are using for their comparisons? it isn't...), at a similar price and in this era of austerity I haven't seen in any of their articles a truly budget pc that can come close to consoles performance
 
The only reason you'd unlock the framerate is because it misses vsync more often than you want and it's the only way to have a decent average framerate. Unsure why anyone would praise them for an unlocked game, last gen people would cry murder if they ever saw tearing.

These last pages read like total fanboy desperation to latch on to something/anything indicating that Xbox One is "better". It's not, the GPU is straight up inferior. Doesn't make Xbone a bad purchase or anything like that, but it's going to have inferior version after inferior version for the entire console generation so maybe get used to DF pointing out reality.
 
The only reason you'd unlock the framerate is because it misses vsync more often than you want and it's the only way to have a decent average framerate. Unsure why anyone would praise them for an unlocked game, last gen people would cry murder if they ever saw tearing.

These last pages read like total fanboy desperation to latch on to something/anything indicating that Xbox One is "better". It's not, the GPU is straight up inferior. Doesn't make Xbone a bad purchase or anything like that, but it's going to have inferior version after inferior version for the entire console generation so maybe get used to DF pointing out reality.

It is not a bad console. Only hardware where you can play Halo 5 and Forza 6 end of 2015 ans Quantum Break first semester 2016...
 
Why wouldn't they? The paper specs suggest that the PS4 has greater graphical capability, developers have suggested that the PS4 is more capable, and comparisons between games tend to indicate that it has greater GPU throughput. So if the XB1 manages to keep up, it's an interesting result and emphasis is appropriate.
They can. But they'd like to be objective. I mean objectivity towards XB1 instalment, abiding by the facts rather than hinting at a surprise tone because a game can run 1080p 60fps.
It's a patterned stutter on even interval. Many won't be bothered, but it'll grind some people's gears. It's not like they were overly harsh on it; they flat-out said that it wouldn't impact playability and that a majority of players wouldn't even notice it. They gave it a lengthy discussion because it was an interesting quirk.
You're trying to be kind to them, okay, but their article says "Mario Kart 8 effectively operates at 59fps with a subtle but continuous stutter visible on-screen." In huge letters. That's very controversial.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-mario-kart-8

Their new Mario Kart Animal Crossing DLC video doesn't clarify matters much.


Before the 59fps thing was an oddity that happened in one of each 64 frames. Now look at the video above....

Something doesn't square with their initial Mario Kart 8 WiiU analysis. I have a feeling that the numbers aren't rounded up, and Mario Kart 8 runs at 59.6-59.7 fps, but the graph only says 59 fps.
 
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