Digital Foundry and console warriors alternate realities *spawn*

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Cyan, May 23, 2015.

  1. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    The million dollar question is how many people are gaming on PC and by gaming I think the inference is the type of AA and AAA games that people are mostly playing on consoles, as opposed to things like Steamworld Dig, Spelunky or Pixel Piracy.

    I think assumptions are poor basis for discussion.

    Well my iMac (3.5GHz i7, 16Gb RAM, 4Gb 780M GPU) probably falls into that category but it gets very little gaming time. That's the problem with assumptions.

    Nope, it randomly appears when the client logs in. I've had a couple times on my Macbook Air in the past few months.
     
  2. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Assumptions are necessary when we don't have perfect information. I'm making the (IMO) fairly safe assumption that most of the PC's on the Steam survey that are more powerful than the PS4 are actually being used for games (insofar as they could be considered part of a valid target market for a multiplatform developer). You don't have to agree with that assumption if you don't want to but if you're arguing it's unlikely then you're assuming too.

    On the topic of your Mac, it's fair to assume that Macs are being used less for gaming than PC's given equal specs. So the easy enough solution would be to exclude Macs and Linux in any counts you make (which is possible in the survey).

    Also, you're making the argument that not all PC's of >console gaming potential are necessarily being used for gaming but I'm not sure what ultimate argument you're trying to make by stating that? Should we not be considering those PC's part of the gaming market? If so, then would you agree the same constraint should be applied to the console market? Afterall not everyone who buys a console regularly games on it. Sure they will at first but after a year or so that console may start collecting dust. You've given your example of having a powerful gaming Mac that doesn't get used for games but I can match that with my own example of the XB360 I bought last generation which saw great use for the first 6-12 months, then collected dust for a couple of years before RROD'ing on me. I'm not saying either of us represent a majority or really prove any kind of point, but what applies to one can certainly apply to the other.
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    I agree as that's the primary reason for a decent GPU. And any workstation with a GPU for productivity is still going to be used for games in all likelihood if someone went and put Steam on it. The number of high end PCs running Steam yet not being a target for game developers can't be that large. ;)
     
  4. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/05...sales-in-fiscal-year-201415-xbox-one-follows/
    This is ubisoft, I can't find EA...

    [​IMG]
    This represents a good sampling of gamers who still buy AAA games, so I think they represent the expected market share if a multiplatform studio wants to sell a $70 game on these platforms. It also shows the market transition with a new console generation, versus the continuous progression of PC gamers who upgrade whenever to whatever.

    A fraction of the 12% PC share in the FY2014-15 figure have a recent card, and a fraction of those have a powerful one.

    Look at the PC market share in FY2013-14: The typical gaming PCs were 10 times more powerful than ps360, and the market share didn't change all that much. The next year, gamers upgraded their consoles, and sales shifted to the PS4 and XB1 extremely rapidly, with PC still not changing much.

    Whether some PCs are more powerful than consoles, or not, have very little influence in the grand scheme of thongs.
     
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  5. goonergaz

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    those figures will be interesting to see over the next couple of years
     
  6. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Interesting numbers. The right software sales on XB1 beyond the install base. 3:2 software sales. Also PC is a small part of Ubi's audience - 12% versus 78% of the year's income.
    Typo or Freudian slip?
     
  7. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Great find! The most interesting thing about those numbers to me is the size of the PC's proportion of sales. I thought they were supposed to be about 5% of the market?? These numbers make far more sense in light of the attention PC versions of multiplat games get and the derived number of decent gaming PC's out there that I took from Steam.
     
  8. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Where does the 78% come from?
     
  9. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Add together PS4, PS3, XB1 and 360 numbers for 14/15. 78% of Ubi's sales was from consoles (83% if we include Nintendo, but they likely aren't serving the same market that PC would be competing with).

    I presume 'sales' means units and not profits though? Although how much difference would that make? I doubt PC software is vastly more or less profitable than consoles.
     
  10. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    I guess this is in reference to OP about DF and Witcher 3 frame rate. Etc. Xbox one is now patched with a 30fps lock. Reports are that the game is way smoother. Blimblim from gamersyde will have a video up soon. I think I have to say I'm very pleased with the results of DFs initial findings :)

    http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=165681056
     
  11. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    I will leave it there... It's so beautiful.
    No way to tell if it's a typo or freudian slip, since the I is right besides the O. Could be both, do you think I'm repressing somethong?
     
  12. Shifty Geezer

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  13. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Ah sorry, misunderstood your post to mean sales vs income so wondered where the income figures had come from while I assumed sales to be in units. Saturday night + vodka etc...
     
  14. ThePissartist

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    You must be drunk. It's Friday.
     
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  15. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Ouch

    EDIT: Should have said I was in Armenia
     
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  16. NRP

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    For what it's worth, I game on PC and XBone, although most of my purchases are on the Bone. My PC has an i7 Sandy Bridge, which is not that great for DX11 games (such as Mechwarrior Online), which are severely draw call limited. I need to build a new PC.
     
  17. Rikimaru

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    What? Sandy is fine, just overclock it.
     
  18. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    No need to even overclock, I'm still running a 2500K at stock and not seeing any problems. Still very GPU limited in every game with my GTX670.
     
  19. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I'm a) not arguing, and b) not assuming anything. I am genuinely curious about the number of PC gamers with console-comparable hardware and the number with better hardware because it would resolve a number of endless circle-jerk discussions on the forums. And really, that's my only interest.

    That's another dangerous assumption. I'd ignore the Mac statistics entirely given Steam indicates 1 out of 4 Mac owners has an AMD processor, so there's clearly a lot of Hackintosh machines out there. There is obviously a OS X (and linux) market for games otherwise Valve wouldn't have bothered at all, but that's about all you can say unless Steam start published actual numbers.

    Again, I'm not arguing anything, I'm seeking the facts. I'm partisan in this, I'm a gamer and by this I mean I'm not a console gamer or a PC gamer, I game on anything and everything. I'm not trying prove that consoles or PC have more active gamers or vice versa.

    But taking your points one by one, yes the same considerations should apply to both markets as far as that makes sense. For example, PCs are by nature multi-purpose and while consoles are certainly more varied in there capabilities, their is little risk in assuming somebody bought an Xbox One to run Photoshop to run photoshop. Photoshop is a reason to own a decent GPU on PC and not game, or game little. Last gen people bought PS3s as a cheap Blu-ray player and at one point it was the top device for using Netflix. We've moved on a generation and it's far less likely anybody has bought a new console for Blu-ray or to watch Netflix since pretty much anything can be used to access Netflix so gaming would seem to be the primary reason to now a current console sales demonstrated pretty early in the generation. WATCH_DOGS, which came out about six months after launch, sold more copies on PS4/XBO than PS3/360.

    You mention your 360 and how little you use it. I guess this depends why you bought it? I get the sense you're a primarily a PC gamer and if your bought the 360 to play platform exclusive games then that would explain the lack of use, unless you just want to explain why. If the former, you're the almost the revere of me. I use Macs for work, play and the occasional gaming experience that consoles can't provide, Starcraft 2, LoL, WoW and I prefer to Minecraft on PC as well because of the mods.

    On your final point, either one of us could be representative of a fair share of the market. It's entirely an unknown. There are simply too many unknowns which is really my motivation to ask quests and query rationale. I don't exist on a side (console/PC) here, I don't really understand people who do mentally and emotionally anchor themselves to product or a brand.
     
  20. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    I completely agree. Although I thought that's what I'd already done a few pages back when I gave the 18m figure. I took the total Steam user base size, then I individually added up the percentages of each GPU with more performance than the PS4 and multiplied that percentage by the total user base. It seems like a pretty fair way to do it to me. That right there is how many PC's there are out there that are more powerful than the PS4 that also use Steam. Is that not the figure those circle-jerk conversations usually revolve around? Don't they usually go something along the lines of "lolz, only 0.01% of PC gamers have systems more powerful than the PS4, that's like only about 10,000 PC's lolz" or "ha! there are 200 million PC's sold every year compared to your 10 million PS4's therefore the gaming market for PC's is 20x bigger than consoles!" Surely the number I've provided above is a fair and far more accurate response to those arguments?

    However you seem to be making arguments as to why the number would actually be lower on the assumption that a significant proportion of those users who own an expensive gaming GPU and have the worlds biggest gaming client installed on that PC are not using the PC for gaming. But to be honest, I'm not even sure that matters since the circle-jerk arguments usually revolve around how many units there are out there anyway, not how many of those units are being used to game on or not (which applies to both PC's and consoles). Also bare in mind Steam doesn't represent the entire PC market so while we can reduce the Steam number a little on the basis of some of those PC's are not used for gaming, we should also uplift it a little to account for the segment of the market that doesn't use Steam.

    Fair enough, reduce the 18m by 4.2% which is the Mac/linux ownership in the Steam survey.

    I'd say there's at least as much likelyhood that someone would buy an XBO for it's TV/communication capabilities without caring about games as someone buying a high end gaming (as opposed to pro) GPU, then installing Steam on that PC and not using that PC for games.

    That sounds like an assumption to me ;)
     
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