Death penalty

[epicstruggle]

the fact that he did something sick and perverse is no excuse for you to have your your sick and perverse fantasies enacted on him. however, our legal system is completely screwed up as it is. as it stands his actions will wind up costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You know i was just thinking that ive never heard the family of a murdered victim ask for anything less than making the killer suffer as much as the victim did. (long sentence sorry.) Im sure some have, but most want the killer to suffer and sitting in jail with the possibility of escape (happens from time to time) isnt a very good conselation prize.

later,
epic

 

[jvd]

Perhaps we should take away the cable tvs , the computers , the weights and all that fun stuff .

I never understood the point of letting a person work out all the time while in jail so when they get out they are stronger than when the went in . Never made sense to me

 

[kyleb]

Legion and epicstruggle, apparently you missed this the first time:

Agreed, Epic/KILER. Chain gangs are a good option, and military/community service are good.

I'm not sure if I agree with the idea of torturing prisoners, ala Saddam, but I do believe in the death penalty.

You intentionally kill somebody, you're no use to society. Bam.

lol funny thing is i agree with all that too, but if, like me, you are also against the whole torture fetish; then apparently you are also a bleeding heart liberal in epicstruggle's book. granted i suppose it is easy to consider anyone a bleeding heart liberal when your ideology lies somewhere to the right of Henry VIII.

funny how a moderate can look like a leftist to a couple right wing fanatics.

 

[pax]

The problem with creating a legal precedent with quick justice is that the hundreds of innocents who have already been imprisoned and executed by the current system could only get worse if the system is simplified. Its always easy to desire a quick execution until you're the one possibly on the mistaken receiving end of that justice...

 

[kyleb]

sure but we have truly lost sight of the whole "far and speedy" trial concept. also, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the death penalty for murderers convicted with incontrovertible evidence or forced labor for criminals in less conclusive/severe situations. unfortunately, much of our society has an inability to understand the difference between fact and opinion; but that is another problem of its own.

 

[epicstruggle]

The problem with creating a legal precedent with quick justice is that the hundreds of innocents who have already been imprisoned and executed by the current system could only get worse if the system is simplified. Its always easy to desire a quick execution until you're the one possibly on the mistaken receiving end of that justice...

Your almost as bad as the problem (the killers). You cant seem to understand what is being said. IF there is undeniable proof that someone is the killer, I mean _undeniable_, they should not have all the right of those who _might_ not be guilty. I doubt that more than 1 in 100 fall in this category. This joseph smith is one of them.

later,
epic

 

[epicstruggle]

funny how a moderate can look like a leftist to a couple right wing fanatics.

Sometimes i feel like a liberal though. Im starting to change my views on alot of matters such as legalizing drug use to decriminilizing prostitution. Hope it doesnt spread to my more hardened views on abortion (wrong in most cases) to being a fiscal conservative.

later,
epic

 

[pax]

The problem with creating a legal precedent with quick justice is that the hundreds of innocents who have already been imprisoned and executed by the current system could only get worse if the system is simplified. Its always easy to desire a quick execution until you're the one possibly on the mistaken receiving end of that justice...

Your almost as bad as the problem (the killers). You cant seem to understand what is being said. IF there is undeniable proof that someone is the killer, I mean _undeniable_, they should not have all the right of those who _might_ not be guilty. I doubt that more than 1 in 100 fall in this category. This joseph smith is one of them.

later,
epic

Whats undeniable to one can often be easily made by another. We've had people talk about undeniable proof for years and milllions spent to convict only to find out about evidence tampering by authorities or framing of one sort or another.

In an age of rapidly advancing video fabrication its hard to accept that only as reason to execute. Sides prison is a worse punishment. So I can only think of execution as a simple attempt at vengence.

 

[epicstruggle]

Sides prison is a worse punishment. So I can only think of execution as a simple attempt at vengence.

Theres nothing wrong with a little vengence. Also prison isnt as safe as we might believe it is http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Southwest/02/02/prison.standoff/index.html. These 2 prisoners actually managed to take 2 hostages in the guard tower!!! So dont think that prison is that secure. Killers can still escape and cause more chaos. Death is the only guarantee that they wont commit more crimes.

later,
epic

 

[Legion]

this is especially true for child molester.

 

[Legion]

funny how a moderate can look like a leftist to a couple right wing fanatics.

Its funny how moderates are generally the last people to call some one left or right wing "fanatics"...Its likewise funny some one becomes a "right wing fanatic" when one of their views are often held by the right wing.

I am a bisexual who supports gay marriage, undoubtedly i am a right wing fanatic....oh wait now i am a left wing fanatic.

Exactly what did i miss something the "first time" when i was merely asking questions and making rather general and truthful statements that yes spending jail times costs the tax payers money.

-btw moderate would be left of right wing

 

[Humus]

still waiting for one specific case. but i guess theories/guesses/hypothetical situations are good enough for some. Id actually like to see some proof.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't exactly keep track of crime cases. I do however with great interest watch discovery documentaries on crime cases, and I know I have seen a few cases where it was found that the initial suspect was found unguilty and someone else had planted the evidence.

 

[Legion]

Humus i doubt that is the case for most offenders though they may say otherwise .

Trust me, i know, i have spoken to numerous offenders. They are all not guilty.

Why even bother to have jails? We could be punishing innocent people?

How do we know DNA evidence has actually served to set guilty men free in some cases?

 

[Humus]

I never saw a tape of oj showing him near the area of the crime near the time of the crime scene. did you? And on a side note he was found not guilty so doesnt that invalidate whatever you were trying to prove.

A tape isn't neccesarily strong evidence. It depends on image quality and other things. In the Anna Lindh murder the surveilance camera caught the guy, but still the first one they arrested was innocent. He was officially described as "not entirely unlike the man in the picture". Chances are you catch someone that looks similar enough to be convincing it's him, but actually is the wrong guy.

 

[Legion]

A tape isn't neccesarily strong evidence.

Lets not forget that cameras in malls do help catch guilty criminals all the time. I'd say a camera's usefulness speaks for itself.

I'd say that film along with other evidence help make the ruling. I'd doubt just a video is enough to convict people in all cases.

 

[Humus]

Humus i doubt that is the case for most offenders though they may say otherwise .

Trust me, i know, i have spoken to numerous offenders. They are all not guilty.

Why even bother to have jails? We could be punishing innocent people?

How do we know DNA evidence has actually served to set guilty men free in some cases?

That's not the point. The point is that death penalty can't be ondone. All other kinds of penalties can. If someone's found to be innocent with new evidence, then you can release him from jail, and compensate him monetarily for the 5 years in prison he suffered so far. But you can't dig the dead guy from the grave and do something useful with it.

 

[Legion]

That's not the point. The point is that death penalty can't be ondone.

The scars of jail time and being robbed of time with your family and loved ones can't be either.

All other kinds of penalties can.

Really? Name one that the emotional distress can be easily undone as a judges ruling.

If someone's found to be innocent with new evidence, then you can release him from jail, and compensate him monetarily for the 5 years in prison he suffered so far. But you can't dig the dead guy from the grave and do something useful with it.

As if it were as easy as just releasing them from jail. I doubt they easily cope with the realities of being stripped from their enviroments and thrown in jail for years and then released with just a "we're sorry we raped you of your dignity, you were the wrong guy, here take this pocket change". Now the man will live a life of suspicion for his crime which will ultimately impact his relationships. We aren't even addressing to what happens to people in jail.

 

[Humus]

It's still a lot better than getting killed no matter what.

Plus monetary compensation is not exactly pocket change. It's typically several times what you would get if you worked all that time.

 

[Legion]

It's still a lot better than getting killed no matter what.

Really, have you spent time in jail? Ever? If so how much time? Were you there because of something you did or did not do?

Plus monetary compensation is not exactly pocket change. It's typically several times what you would get if you worked all that time.

And that makes it all ok.

 

[zidane1strife]

Can you name a case where all the evidence: taped kidnapping, evidence in car, confession to someone, and maybe even evidence in her, Were all 4 things were faked/forced. ALL 4 together. This is an open and shut case. Not to say he shouldnt get a day in court. But this guy is guilty.

Secret lost twin brother incriminating someone...

Now, as for the death penalty, for all we know he could be better of after dying then he'd be if he remained here...(resting from existence, reliving his life, or even the -unlikely- eternal paradise, etc. for all we know.)

In any case, for now, I think it's best not to use the death penalty even in such cases... we should use other forms of punishment. Society already takes the lives of many, like it's said this man has done. But to officialize such actions, even on the unjust, is something I personally abhor.