Crossfire PDF

[wireframe]

Yes. I agree with how you put it. I just understood that when she wrote "we did not create the document," she was referring to the .ppt, not the .pdf. I don't think she was trying to mislead.

Right, so I am not sure why you are saying I am accusing her of anything. I didn't see PPT mentioned before now. Just because you know it was a PPT didn't mean everyone reading this did. I was only making the distinction that Mikula was probably referring to not creating the PPT, but probably having created the PDF. I figured some people may have jumped on that part as being misleading.

I am even getting confused writing this again. What I tried to say was that "didn't create this document" was probably refering to the underlying PPT, not the PDF (which I think may have been created at ATI from the PPT source using Acrobat Distiller). Phew...

 

[Dave Baumann]

You didnt by chance notify Patti as to what was happening here about this document?? I think yes and I giggle like a school boy as Dave rushes to put out ati's fire, typical and predictable.

No actually. I'd been talking to Patti some hours beforehand and this was mentioned. As I said, she was also reading this thread and mailed me.

 

[2senile]

LOL. She's reading this thread:

In that case; Hi Patricia. I'm the nutter from 3DVelocity who met you in the Langham Hotel, London, for the 9600XT launch ..... not having slept for 48hrs & being tanked up on painkillers.
I mentioned to Wayne that I might not have made a good impression.

Someone deleted the comments and forwarded the document on.

The Swines!!! You can't trust anybody these days.

I have reason to believe that the PDF came out of ATI,

My bold. What reason? (damn, I love this stuff. this thread is the best chuckle I've had since last October.)

Just stick in things like "allegedly" & "it is my opinion" to any reply in which you are unable to supply any proof & you should be safe from legal action. Would you say tho, that "something" came into the hands of Patricia from an outside source?

lying

I don't believe "lying" is involved. Semantics & not having the full story is what is happening here.

Hey ERK, are you by any chance a former Mad Onion from Bluestraws?

(DISCLAIMER: Due to health problems I'm stuck with one finger typing so by the time I finish this post things may have moved on. I in no way intend to insult or denigrate other posters or their opinions & happily apologise in advance if anything I post causes offence.) :?

Like I said, "Juicy".

Like I said "FUN".

 

[Dave Baumann]

(Split from original topic)

The correct Acrobat software can edit / comment PDF's directly.

 

[CMAN]

Woah! I was in the thread while it was moved and that freaked me out. It said it was locked but would let me reply, then the size of the thread decreased.

On topic though:
I don't watch them, but this is turning into a overdramatized soap opera. Yes, Nvidia thinks Crossfire stinks. Yes, Ati thinks SLI stinks. Yet they will probably perform similarly. And most people who would be willing to pay that much money are probably hardcore one company of the other (or so I assume). Therefore, I do not think many people who actually purchase these set ups will care about the minor faults of either product (as both do have minor faults) and will only care about the label slapped on the front.

I do feel bad for ATI marketing though. Having to go up against SLI, it's like going against Band-Aid. No one asks for a Curad.....

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Yes, you are right. I somehow forgot that part. Weird. Ok, so then the AIB made the PDF and sent that to ATI...but why? Maybe more comments?

The reason I say this is because it is clear from the PDF we have downloaded and are discussing originated as a PPT that went through Acrobat Distiller.

Maybe someone decided that PDF would be more secure after the business of Richard Huddy's Powerpoint slides with his comments intact?

Actually I think that this is a Nvidia document that was given internally to their reps and PR as a normal pre-emptive spoiler against an ATI launch. At some point a copy was left with an AIB who passed it onto ATI. There was also talk of how Nvidia told partners that they would not get a G70 demo at the recent trade shows if they demoed Crossfire, so this is just a continuation of the usual aggressive Nvidia marketing tactics.

When or where it was converted into a PDF for the convenience of Nvidia reps or ATI PR to circulate for internal comments is a bit moot - it's the content that counts.

 

[Jawed]

In terms of marketing, however "late" R520 might be, I can imagine there's a few enthusiasts out there who will not just buy a 7800GTX SLI system - instead they'll wait to find out how good an R520 Crossfire system is, or at least wait to see what the hands-on reviews on CrossFire say about the quality of ATI's implementation, performance, scalability. i.e. wait to see if CrossFire is worth considering.

Hence putting something of a dent in 7800 sales, perhaps. The inverse of the "just you wait for the fantastic Geforce 5800" that happend 3 years ago.

[This should really go in the other thread, but I thought of it while reading this one.]

Jawed

 

[ERK]

Hey ERK, are you by any chance a former Mad Onion from Bluestraws?

Nah. Not me. Sorry.

I didn't mean to belabor this. I was mainly reacting to...

If my theory is correct, ATI never received a PDF like this.

...which I mistakenly interpreted as a claim that ATI did not ever receive any document at all (didn't see the 'like this' which I take it wireframe may have meant the final document with all the comments).



Meh, it's all just silly.

 

[wireframe]

When or where it was converted into a PDF for the convenience of Nvidia reps or ATI PR to circulate for internal comments is a bit moot - it's the content that counts.

Perhaps, but I think most of the discussion is around or generated by contents we should not even be seeing (or should we?). That deserves some thinking about. Would this document mean anything or be interesting at all without the embedded comments? We all expect (I hope) companies to make these kind of bullet point sales sheets and here we are seeing what looks like two companies going head to head in their commentary, and this is what makes the document interesting.

 

[Xmas]

I'm not accusing anyone on this, because it certainly gave me a good laugh

Just let the products speak for themselves, this makes deciding so much easier

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Perhaps, but I think most of the discussion is around or generated by contents we should not even be seeing (or should we?). That deserves some thinking about. Would this document mean anything or be interesting at all without the embedded comments?

Actually I don't consider the embedded comments any more or less interesting than the document itself. The document is Nvidia doing the ususal marketing BS as a spoiler. The emedded comments are ATI rebutting with the same kind of language.

They should release the cards and be done with it, though I suppose it's usual for Nvidia to start this kind of pissing contest at launch time. ATI doesn't really have a choice about sinking to Nvidia's level and responding in kind to try and clear up the Nvidia FUD.

 

[Voltron]

I find the part about the wasted transistors in Patti's comments highly amusing. Wasn't this the FUD that was being spread about NV40 in regard to R420. I seem to remember quite a few posts expressing that concern. I wonder if the extra transistors for SM 3.0 are still considered a waste. Isn't NVIDIA to be commended for adding more features into their cards? Maybe thats why devs such as Sweeney are so loyal to NVIDIA, rather than simply money as many like to assume. Moreover, prices between the two companies products don't seem all that different. In perfect world, I'm pretty sure that each company would like to have the best perfroming product at each price point.

 

[digitalwanderer]

LOL. She's reading this thread

WHY HAVEN'T YOU ANSWERED ANY OF MY E-MAILS PATTI? DON'T YA LOVE ME ANYMORE?!?!?

Sorry for the interruption, but I've had the darndest time getting her attention lately.

 

[Reverend]

What fun.

I'd be interested if costs were discussed in the document but as it is this document made me laugh a bit.

Is Patricia cute?

 

[Geo]

God forgive me, but I love this kind of petty shit from extraordinarly gifted folks. It's so. . .human. Make no mistake, the top folks at both IHV's are all very, very good at what they do, or they wouldn't be there. This kind of thing proves (from both sides) that no matter how competent they are, they are still very much human beings, subject to adrenaline and all the rest. I love it when the "professional" mask is torn away and the humans shine thru. You or I may think some of these points are silly, unfair, self-serving, whatever --this is what they really think. And that's nice to know, aside from the entertainment value.

 

[Demirug]

Demirug,

How did you come upon these annotations by "accident"? We are talking about over 3000 lines of "garbage" with no logical reason to search for any particular string of text in that "garbage". Is there something you are not telling us? It just seems completely weird that you would look through something with a hex editor after Acrobat Reader states there are no comments in the document. I am very curious how you happened upon these notes.

I am trained to find such things. Some say I am very good in this job. I am simply use my talent on this small document.

 

[Geo]

Demirug,

How did you come upon these annotations by "accident"? We are talking about over 3000 lines of "garbage" with no logical reason to search for any particular string of text in that "garbage". Is there something you are not telling us? It just seems completely weird that you would look through something with a hex editor after Acrobat Reader states there are no comments in the document. I am very curious how you happened upon these notes.

I am trained to find such things. Some say I am very good in this job. I am simply use my talent on this small document.

This is, after all, the man that found the vertical split capability of CrossFire a month or more before announcement, and so far as I know was the only person to predict it.

That "trained" is interesting tho. Industrial espionage? 8)

 

[Nick]

I suddenly became a big fan of the PDF file format. What else could be hidden in them? 8) Let's dig into every presentation we can find...

Do I smell Adobe fires?

 

[MistaPi]

Also.
Quote from hothardware.

**UPDATE:June 3, 2005
We tried to duplicate the screen shots that ATI supplied to us, and found that ATI seems to have misrepresented the micro-geometry detail of NVIDIA's 8X anti-aliasing method. The screen shots we took on our own with a GeForce 6800 GT, clearly show more detail than the screen shots distributed by ATI in their CrossFire presentation. Take a look for yourself...

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=689&page=3#update

Any comments on this? Straight out cheating?

 

[ANova]

According to Patti they recieved it from an AIB.

You didnt by chance notify Patti as to what was happening here about this document?? I think yes and I giggle like a school boy as Dave rushes to put out ati's fire, typical and predictable.

What's typical and predictable is your denial of nvidia's past and present dealings of this nature.