Could there be any PS3 games with no AA?
- Thread starter superguy
- Start date
cloudscapes said:
Oh absolutely, I'd take a framebuffer grab any day of the week, it has just become a bit of a nightmare to get 'honest' shots nowerdays. I'm not trying to provide definitive proof either way here, just an amateur observation and I understand the limitations with that. The burden of proof is with me, so I'm trying the best with what I have at hand
I took the shots so damned close to my TV so that it was possible to identify individual pixels from the display panel. That way it could firstly confirm that the game image wasn't being upsampled from a lower resolution (single pixel width edges are shown), and that it is much easier to identify if edge blending is present. Though it doesn't help that the COD2 photo was out of focus, so sorry about that one.
Personally i've only played Kameo demo, which surely had no AA. I have no idea what the final version looks like, all i'm discussing is the principle. A zoomed-in AA picture will surely show what is going on in the picture, and no game, even with AA, looks "perfect".
If Kameo has AA, it would show in zoomed in pictures.
This will help anyone with doubts about what an AA picture looks like when zoomed in.
http://www.nvnews.net/previews/geforce_6800_ultra/page_4.shtml
If Kameo has AA, it would show in zoomed in pictures.
This will help anyone with doubts about what an AA picture looks like when zoomed in.
http://www.nvnews.net/previews/geforce_6800_ultra/page_4.shtml
Yes because it's only showing the pixels being rendered larger than normal. Upscaling on TV doesn't introduce jaggies in antialised lines.scooby_dooby said:
To lay this argument to rest (sort of!) how's about you grab a picture that we can compare to direct grabs such. Maybe a closeup of the snowy rail here
http://www.xe360.com/images/media/cold_clear_day.jpg
or a chimney stack from here
http://www.rareware.com/games/upcoming/kameo/shots/kameo_12hi.jpg
or the top of the orc's head from this one
http://www.rareware.com/games/upcoming/kameo/shots/kameo_12hi.jpg
You need the shallower angles. Steep lines conceal pixeiation very well. Also be sure to use a tripod if you can, though it's obvbious to determine if a jaggy from those I've losted above is being blurred out so it's not essential.
I've just knocked up an example from the Chimney Stack example of what I'd expect to see for different AA methods.
The example from the Rare website is definitely showing no AA. It'd be great is you could grab the same bit of shot from the game directly to compare.
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!eVo!-X Ant UK
Banned
Is'nt this thread about PS3?
Not any more! 
Though it's kinda on topic, because it's considering worth and likelihood of AA on other platforms as a comparison.
Though it's kinda on topic, because it's considering worth and likelihood of AA on other platforms as a comparison.
scooby_dooby
Legend
All I can tell you Shifty is that the actual game looks nothing like alot of those screen grabs from rare's site. That ugly aliasing around all the objects, and all the characters just isn't there. I'll try and get a snowy rail shot tonight..why not. (well actually GRAW just came in so.....chances are smil to none but I'll try)
No AA there, and if that's the full game, then i guess we can say Kameo has no AA.
cloudscapes
Regular
clearly no AA going on in there, not even 2X.
I think the whole issue is just certain TVs that purposefully blur the signal more than others, as I mentioned in a previous post. there's usually a "sharpness" setting in the TV's config menu.
I think the whole issue is just certain TVs that purposefully blur the signal more than others, as I mentioned in a previous post. there's usually a "sharpness" setting in the TV's config menu.
Heh, that's what i've been saying from the beginning...cloudscapes said:
Okay, that agrees with the dev shots. Thanks for going to the effort Mmkay. That confirms the shots on Rare's site are the actual game and the game doesn't have AA, at least not full screen AA in all situations.
It'd be good to have Scooby's grabs for comparison to determine either if his setup is smoothnig things out somehow, or if Scooby just isn't seeing aliasing that is there. The discrepency in deciding AA presence is one of different equipment delivering different results, or different players having different sensitivity to aliasing, and it'd be nice to know where that is to lend credence to other posts on the matter. I'd like to know when someone says 'this game has AA' on titles where it hasn't, how they come to that conclusion.
It'd be good to have Scooby's grabs for comparison to determine either if his setup is smoothnig things out somehow, or if Scooby just isn't seeing aliasing that is there. The discrepency in deciding AA presence is one of different equipment delivering different results, or different players having different sensitivity to aliasing, and it'd be nice to know where that is to lend credence to other posts on the matter. I'd like to know when someone says 'this game has AA' on titles where it hasn't, how they come to that conclusion.
Shifty Geezer said:
Strange thing is that he can see the aliasing on COD2, on the same HDTV, so really he should see aliasing on Kameo, although i guess COD2 uses more contrasting colours (black and white etc) which makes things worse if you don't have AA. Kameo seems to be using low-contrast colours (lots of different shades of red or blue etc), which helps things out more than people think, but, like in the examle with the snowy rail thing, it shows when there are high-contrast areas.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Well I can definately pick up some jaggies on the snowy pass rail, but it doesn't look nearly as bad as the shots MMkay posted
http://www.shawnblais.com/kameo_rail.jpg
http://www.shawnblais.com/kameo_rail.jpg
Simple, your TV is working some mojo, like i've been saying all along. Also the camera needs to be set right (fast shutter speed) otherwise the light will bleed into the darker part, blurring the whole thing.
scooby_dooby said:
Err yes it looks pretty much exactly like mine (except a little out of focus). Once again, aliasing is most noticable at near horizontal and near vertical edges. That's why it doesn't look 'as bad', because you're looking at the wrong angles.
[edit]It's not that I'm cherrypicking shots here, the remit is to demonstrate that the game has no anti-aliasing in place. The easiest way to do this is by examining shallow angle edges. AA isn't voodoo, there's little middle ground (wel I suppose there may be some exotic implementations) or ambiguity once you identify aliasing.
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scooby_dooby
Legend
london-boy said:
Probably just the upscaling from 720p to 1080i, also I have my sharpness cranked and edge enhancement on high. ISO 100 btw.
scooby_dooby said:
Try to get it on focus...
Off topic, but my camera has a fabulous "magnifying lens" feature which focuses things from VERY close and magnifies them, i've tried my monitor and you can see the gaps between pixels on a monitor like they were tiles on a kitchen wall!!
Shame i don't have Kameo, my pics would have been perfect.Anyway, yes your TV is upscaling, blurring everything in the process, so the whole discussion is kinda dead. That's the solution, from the beginning, you should have told us!
cloudscapes
Regular
london-boy said:
hehe, sorry
must of missed a few posts or read too fast
