Capcom Licenses UE3

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12913

Whatever this game is I know it will look very good using UE3 in the hands of Capcom. I predict it will be another hit like LP.

This news was very odd to me. Why would they not use the superior Framework engine?

I suppose it has more to do with the fact this is their US arm which might as well be another company as Capcom-Japan doesn't have enough time/manpower to get anyone else up to speed with using their engine (including their own team in US) while with UE3, help/guidance can be found by knocking on their neighbors door.:cry:

Gears looked great, but much of that was color selection/art direction to hide the lack of AA.
Hopefully UE3 is evolving as other engines are really starting to shine on 360. (see BFBC, LP)
 
I don't get why they don't use their own engine. Language barriers? is the documentation and everything else in Japanese or what? And even so, wouldn't it be cheaper to translate that instead of licencing the UE3? Anyway, the "it prints money" thingy is I guess approriate here...
 
I don't get why they don't use their own engine. Language barriers? is the documentation and everything else in Japanese or what? And even so, wouldn't it be cheaper to translate that instead of licencing the UE3? Anyway, the "it prints money" thingy is I guess approriate here...

time/man power seems to be the problem.
 
I don't get why they don't use their own engine. Language barriers
Most probably, indeed.
The Capcom Framework is an engine created by and for Japanese users, so not only would the documention have to be translated but the technical support would also be limited or slow, if the US devs were to pass their queries via a translator.
 
This news was very odd to me. Why would they not use the superior Framework engine?
I don't get why they don't use their own engine.
Here's a counter-question for you. Why is it that everybody thinks that every company out there will always use only a single engine? Capcom is a big company with lots of studios that all have to get projects rolled out. I guess that doesn't matter irrespective of the logistical nightmare it would create.

The company I work for, for instance, has a UE3 license and does indeed use it... in one studio. In the studio where I work, we have something in-house and have no intention ever to use any middleware game engine. In a lot of ways (though certainly not every), our engine IS superior to UE3... as are some of the engines used in other studios... but to move this engine throughout all the studios would mean we'd have to provide support and updates as all the core development is right in here and a whole lot of code from a whole lot of coders working on a whole lot of projects gets mixed into the pipe and when there are so many trees to have to manage and so much work to be shared, that's not something we as a studio can handle in addition to getting our own games out. Especially not when we're several time zones away from most of the people who would need that support.

Hopefully UE3 is evolving as other engines are really starting to shine on 360. (see BFBC, LP)
The people who evolve UE3 are probably going to be the clients more so than Epic. Everyone's basically going to rip the whole thing to shreds eventually and just reconstruct it as they would have liked. Every middleware solution gets the same treatment.
 
Anyone considered that the dev house that's using the UE3.0 engine has UE experience? That would be another good reason to license the UE3.0 engine instead of trying to use the Framework engine.
 
Whatever it is, it was a decision that, when you get down to it, was made by THAT particular studio who spent some time weighing their options and evaluating middleware and ultimately decided that licensing UE3 was the best choice -- the higher-ups at Capcom simply approved of the decision (and quite likely also presented the initial conundrum that forced such an evaluation period). That's typically how it works.
 
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Hi, ShootMyMonkey, can you tell me if, in future, there will be possibilities to update the UE 3.0 to support the tiled rendering and so also a lossless anti aliasing with 720p native resolution?


It is possible with this engine to push to the limit the X360 and PS3 hardware?
 
Can you tell me if, in future, there will be possibilities to update the UE 3.0 to support the tiled rendering and so also a lossless anti aliasing with 720p native resolution?

It is possible with this engine to push to the limit the X360 and PS3 hardware?
Anything's possible. But again, I don't think it's going to be Epic who does it -- it's going to be licensees who decide to severely modify the renderpath to try various different techniques to see what works best. I especially don't think tiling will ever be something Epic themselves will work into it because UE3 is a multi-platform engine, and twittering around with something as fundamental as the way you issue geometry for the sake of only one platform is just not reasonable. OTOH, a licensee who is working specifically on the 360 might do that. A licensee who's working specifically on PS3 might decide to apply some SPE culling or display list semaphores or something similar.

Specializations here and there which are non-destructive to the end goal of creating a uniform API may exist within UE3 out of the box (e.g. vector/matrix classes using platform-specific intrinsics), but nothing that really changes how you're going to have to do things.
 
Would it not be smart for MS to take up UE3.0 development and create platform-specific optimizations? Could the ongoing UE3.0 development fit into such a development strategy, with generic UE3.0 for the masses, and an MS sponsored tailored engine for their system? This would be similar to PSSG being a Sony sponsored, cross-platform but PS3 optimized graphics engine, only with the reach of the dozens of titles using UE3.0. If you can offer an optimized engine that showcases your hardware over and above the unoptimized engine on your rival, especially when 1 in 3 titles use it, that has to be a smart use of development time.
 
Would it not be smart for MS to take up UE3.0 development and create platform-specific optimizations? Could the ongoing UE3.0 development fit into such a development strategy, with generic UE3.0 for the masses, and an MS sponsored tailored engine for their system?
What ongoing UE3 development? Last I recall, UE3 is pretty much in the "support and continued bug/usability updates" phase, and UE4 is the real growing project. And the short answer to your question is "yes, it would not be smart." Mainly because everything they'd do will most likely be removed by the licensees and replaced with something that suits their purposes.

The longer answer is quite simply the fact that there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all engine, and the lower level optimizations are where there tends to be a lot more divergence, because the needs on that end tend to become project-specific, and there are combinatorically many possibilities. No one ever uses an engine as is unless they're in the business of expansion packs and mods. For instance, say you're a licensee don't WANT to use the shadowing method in UE3 and roll your own, what good does it do for MS to optimize the hell out of that when someone is going to rip it out? Say you have a shader-ized AA fake that looks better on average than hardware 2x or 4x MSAA (which is really not hard), then nothing good can come out of having an engine optimized for tiling -- if anything, it will hurt you. Say you have a hefty solution for vegetation collision, you're basically going to write stuff in on your own that somehow has to mesh with the existing API, and if someone has done more damage to the low-level parts of the API, you're more likely to run into surprises, and surprises are never in your favor.

This would be similar to PSSG being a Sony sponsored, cross-platform but PS3 optimized graphics engine, only with the reach of the dozens of titles using UE3.0. If you can offer an optimized engine that showcases your hardware over and above the unoptimized engine on your rival, especially when 1 in 3 titles use it, that has to be a smart use of development time.
I can't say I've looked even the slightest bit into PSSG, but FWICT, I wouldn't call it an engine in the same way that I'd call UE3 an engine. And if you read the descriptions, it's not a full game engine the way UE3 is -- it's strictly about rendering. Essentially it's a render layer and possibly some corresponding asset generation tools and libs for a game engine to use. That's part of the reason PSSG works as a concept -- it's only one susbsystem, and specifically, it's the last one in the chain of dependencies.

Now Microsoft doing something closer to that, I can see as being semi-useful, but because Xenos by nature has some more idiosynchracies to it, ultimately, I'd see it becoming more of a development guide than a development tool.
 
I can't say I've looked even the slightest bit into PSSG, but FWICT, I wouldn't call it an engine in the same way that I'd call UE3 an engine. And if you read the descriptions, it's not a full game engine the way UE3 is -- it's strictly about rendering. Essentially it's a render layer and possibly some corresponding asset generation tools and libs for a game engine to use. That's part of the reason PSSG works as a concept -- it's only one susbsystem, and specifically, it's the last one in the chain of dependencies.

Now Microsoft doing something closer to that, I can see as being semi-useful, but because Xenos by nature has some more idiosynchracies to it, ultimately, I'd see it becoming more of a development guide than a development tool.
That's what I was saying. Or at least, meaning to! Sony are offering a cross-platform graphics lib that's optimized for PS3. Is it possibleto creat (or modify) a cross-platform game engine so it makes better use of your hardware, with devs still able to modify it to custom needs?

Even if just improving the basic renderer efficiency, they'd have a noticeable positive impact for UE3 development on XB360 and save devs from either creating their own or using an unoptimized engine. Presumably they could improve some other aspects too, but maybe not. Where UE3 is just a starting point to be hacked around on a per title basis, I'd have thought providing a more effective basic starting point would produce better final works.
 
Anything's possible. But again, I don't think it's going to be Epic who does it -- it's going to be licensees who decide to severely modify the renderpath to try various different techniques to see what works best. I especially don't think tiling will ever be something Epic themselves will work into it because UE3 is a multi-platform engine, and twittering around with something as fundamental as the way you issue geometry for the sake of only one platform is just not reasonable. OTOH, a licensee who is working specifically on the 360 might do that.

I remember there was some talk about Silicon Knights trying to implement AA with U3.0 for Too Human.
 
Anyone recall that MGS licensed UE3.0?

one link
TXB

Unreal Engine 3 technology and tools will be used in games developed by and published by Microsoft Game Studios.
That was just over 2 years ago, and there hasn't been much word from Microsoft Game Studios for developed games; we all know about published games for BioWare and Silicon Knights etc. Perhaps the internal teams are cooking up something to modify the rendering pipe to suit the 360?

I'd be somewhat horrified to learn if Shadowrun were using UE3.0, and Bungie's got their own engine. I'm not sure about Ensemble Studios though. Rare seems to be using their own engines, but they could have switched after completing their first wave of titles from each of their three groups (PDZ, Kameo, Viva Pinata).
 
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That's what I was saying. Or at least, meaning to! Sony are offering a cross-platform graphics lib that's optimized for PS3. Is it possibleto creat (or modify) a cross-platform game engine so it makes better use of your hardware, with devs still able to modify it to custom needs?

Even if just improving the basic renderer efficiency, they'd have a noticeable positive impact for UE3 development on XB360 and save devs from either creating their own or using an unoptimized engine. Presumably they could improve some other aspects too, but maybe not. Where UE3 is just a starting point to be hacked around on a per title basis, I'd have thought providing a more effective basic starting point would produce better final works.
Okay, when you said "take up UE3 development", I assumed you meant the whole thing. I guess there's just a lot more options with 360, whereas things that work well on the PS3 work well for almost everybody. It's hard to cover many bases without turning it into a "kitchen sink" render layer. But then, knowing MS, they'll probably develop to the one and only ideal they choose to encourage.

Anyone recall that MGS licensed UE3.0?

That was just over 2 years ago, and there hasn't been much word from Microsoft Game Studios. Perhaps they're cooking up something to modify the rendering pipe to suit the 360?
Meh. I doubt it will extend beyond the needs of the (most likely) one studio that's actually using it.
 
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