Capcom announces DmC Devil May Cry, developed by Ninja Theory

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by thop, Sep 15, 2010.

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  1. SG79

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    More to it than that. DMC itself was started off as RE4 originally then he and Mikami rallied management to switch the project sometime in 2000, and the rest is history. The first game was his creation entirely, right down to design requests like Dante not being a smoker.

    It wasn't his choice to move away from the series, it was the management's request.

    Design-wise, sure Dante wasn't very original but still tenfold better than this anorexic/emo/"modern" vampire hybrid.
     
  2. SG79

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    Well, RE4 was a reboot. An overhaul of the formula even, yet Leon and everyone else was recognizable and better than before. You can do a lot without overhauling a character design beyond recognition. The funny part here is that the old Dante is intact in MVC3, thankfully.

    No one is judging the gameplay here, but given the developer's track record, there is a legitimate reason to be worried. DMC4 was not perfect nor was it the best in the series, but it was a better game than HS by all accounts (combat engine/design and frame rate... HS barely retained 30Hz).

    Why something distinctively Japanese like DMC was outsourced, yet Lost Planet, the epitome of mediocrity was developed in-house is a mystery. DMC4 wasn't even a failure commercially to warrant such a drastic change. At over 2 million shipped, it did better than DR or LP, yet those two remain relatively the same with their sequels.
     
  3. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    Dante's always been a pretty lanky guy anyway, so... all we really see is a somewhat-less-developed Dante who is less bishi. And some of that follows if indeed he's supposed to be a young Dante just getting into "the biz," as it were.

    People don't seem to be concerned with "beyond recognition," but changing him at all. White hair and a more anime-styled face... That's really it.

    That's really... nothing.
     
  4. nightshade

    nightshade Interwebz Hijacker !
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    Dante's white hair is cause of a story canon ie. Sparda's offsprings are always white haired...this applies to his brother Vergil & nephew Nero as well. Dante doesn't smoke cause he hates it (he mentions it in the games), uses his father's sword Rebellion which is also his power source & and we all know how 18 year old Dante looks (DMC3).

    So considering all this I don't think this Dante is a younger version of the character we all seem to know & like.
     
  5. RenegadeRocks

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    Well, the problem is that his name is "Dante" ! THats all, had he said, " My name is Felix !" everybody would be fine that it is a new setting, new timeline, new hero, new story under the DmC brand !

    Has anyone confirmed its the "same" Dante as the earlier DMCs? He could be totally someone new, in a new world, just shares the name to carry the brand forward.

    Just for info, I dislike him too :lol: !
     
  6. Nesh

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    Why?? Why did they remove the white hair?
    Dont they know that the whitish/silverish hair are freakin cool already?
    Sephiroth has it, Eko has it from Karas, Raiden has it, Lee Chaolan has it,......
    Now even Steve Martin looks cooler than this emo dude. :evil:
    The new Dante looks like an anorexic emo version of Clark Kent! And I hope he doesnt cut his vains and wine while I play against Mundus or Virgil......(Oh My God. I wonder what they will do to them too)
     
  7. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    A) Unless Dante explicitly stated why he hated smoking, they may have made a point to include it because they wanted to present the circumstance.
    B) Not sure where the "white hair" explanation is given nor in what circumstance. White from birth? Adolescence? Turns white at some event, like when he starts to really tap the power of his heritage? (Moreover, was it really a "thing" or just a throwaway remark?) There may have been a mom-related cutscene I don't remember, of course...
    C) I don't recall Dante's age given in DMC3 (or the manga), but he didn't precisely look 18. Certainly the one shown in the trailer looks younger anyway, and even a few months leeway leaves time to set up events.
    D) Dante uses all manner of melee weapons in each of the games.
    E) Most people don't care or remember about video game plot one bit, and games tend to retcon at their own convenience if they want to. It's best not to care overly.

    Not to mention that the "Dante" shown doesn't necessary HAVE to be the Dante we know. Not to mention not to mention that they might actually want "reboot" to mean something. Even if it may be one-off experimentaiton the way the 2008 Prince of Persia was.


    And heck, maybe it IS a stealth entry to get teenage girls to play more games like it ZOMG!! :shock::shock:

    I more want to hear from Dante's biggest fans. :razz: (I especially want to hear from this one.)
     
  8. patsu

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    For his hair color, he may have dyed it black for his own reason. He is young. I get that he looks less cool compare to the "old" Dante but I also think that a boy/man is defined by his actions.

    [Comb hair backwards]
     
  9. nightshade

    nightshade Interwebz Hijacker !
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    He says that he hates it cause its bad for his health...quite a simple reason but atleast he specifically says that.
    According to the anime he was born with white hair cause of his demon lineage, beside Dante "awakens" his powers for the first time in DMC3 (the game is called DMC3: Dante's Awakening)
    The DMC 3 Manga helped settle his age as it has scene with Dante at the age of 8 (when his mother was killed). By considering what's said in the games, his age comes around 18 years in DMC3.
    This is DMC, part of the experience of the games comes from playing as Dante so its obviously a big deal if they change him.
    Which brings me to the question...why name this new guy Dante ?
     
    #109 nightshade, Sep 19, 2010
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  10. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    Perhaps the "health consequences" would be established. Like it allowed a demon to track and almost kill him. "Health consequences indeed. :razz:

    It seems like a pretty purposeful inclusion, so I rather think they were doing it specifically to rattle a few people, and supply it more background. If you're doing a prequel, you have that kind of wiggle-room.

    He's shrugging off lethal injuries and riding around on demons like skateboards in the opening scenes. Seems to me there's room to maneuver in the whole "super powers" department. His DMC3 "awakening" would appear to only refer to the devil powers appearing after he fights Vergil.

    As I said, I don't know the figures. And if the manga is the only place where an 8-year-old Dante appears with white hair, that's easy to ignore; manga tends to exist as its own side-market, and it would certainly have little impact in the west.

    And even IGNORING artistic license and "rebooting" concerns, that still gives them time they can fill in before the events of DMC3. DmC's "Dante" looks plenty younger, and DMC3's Dante already seems to be reasonably established. There's still room for more of an "origin story."

    But playing Dante didn't take the burn off DMC2's panning relative to DMC1, nor did the Nero/Dante relationship in DMC4 add any spark and zest, or add great things to the storyline; people just seemed to be relatively happy to have any old DMC to play.

    My guess would be because Capcom wanted to add enough distance and difference from the the other titles to attract attention, and possibly to attract renewed interest in other markets. Getting people to keep talking and talking and talking about your game--even if it's to bitch about it--is rarely a bad thing. (And if pre-release reviews have tell favorable things about the "why," it all turns to free marketing.) I'm sure NT had a a role in character design, but obviously if Capcom wanted Dante to retain his "Dante-ness," they would have made sure it happened.

    It's just simply candy-ass to bitch about things only from a character design angle, with no actual idea of the action or the plot... or even if that is "the Dante we know and love" at all. I'm reminded about the bitchings-to-high-heaven people did regarding the Raiden switch in MGS2. Apparently you can craft one of the best games ever, but if you offense the fragile sensibilities of a certain segment of the market, you send them all into a tizzy.


    Playing as Raiden was not a bad thing, and the game did not become bad because of it. I have no idea what this new Dante or "Dante" or what have you will be like, but the only thing that will matter is: will the game kick ass? Not "am I thrown into a tizzy because of a name and character design?"


    On the "game kicking ass" part, NT may have a helluva hill to climb in and of itself, of course. But that's the part we should actually care about.
     
  11. Kittonwy

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    Being lanky is not the same as looking like a total crack addict.
     
  12. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    He looked notably like that in all of one scene, which obviously looked like a flashback (perhaps to months of not years before his action sequences), where he was apparently being held and tortured. You expected him to have a nice rosy glow, perhaps? In the rest, he's just more slender and has a more sallow and and harder-edged face. Comes across in stark contrast mainly because of previous bishi-ness.

    Regardless, whatever they did they did entirely at Capcom's behest.
     
  13. Kittonwy

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    Not sure how this would actually legitimize the design changes when Kamiya is no longer at Capcom, the Capcom being run by Inafune right now is not the same Capcom DMC originated from, that original team has moved on and out of Capcom long ago. I don't trust Inafune with most of his decisions regarding any of Capcom's franchises.
     
  14. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    ...but I'm not sure how Kamiya's influence "legitimizes" Devil May Cry, when he was only serious involved in the first. Obviously he established a lot with the first, but wouldn't Hideaki Itsuno be more the legitimate "control" element (if any single person is) of DMC since he's been directing since DMC2?

    Meanwhile, Inafune became Global Head of Production in April, so this particular DmC project direction predates that; from here it's hard to tell whose influence affected what. But it's been a concern from Capcom for a while to have more "western-influenced" games, so I can see why they'd tap another established license to test additional pushes in that direction, rather than placing all your eggs in new baskets like Dead Rising. Resident Evil had been making strides in that direction--why not Devil May Cry if the current iteration seems like it may not continue to expand?

    Certainly there are some licenses they really couldn't touch, but DMC isn't one of them, and it's in a genre (in many ways, established that genre) that has a lot of broader appeal.


    More commentary from Capcom.
     
  15. Kittonwy

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    Itsuno almost destroyed the DMC franchise with DMC2.

    Kamiya literally came up with DMC, he didn't just direct it, DMC was his brainchild, it wouldn't have existed without Kamiya, THAT is the difference between Kamiya and Itsuno, Kamiya created the IP, Itsuno was simply a director. It would be like saying that Traveller's Tales is more responsible for Crash Bandicoot than Naughty Dog.

    Inafune was already a corporate officer/senior corporate officer at Capcom for years, long before he became Global Production Head, and Mikami was on the outs for the longest time, it's not like Inafune hasn't been calling the shots for the most part.

    You're basically saying nothing is sacred from Capcom's desperate attempt at trying to appeal to the west and Capcom has shown that nothing is, but the stupid thing is DMC was already a successful global IP, Dante is already very much a typical wise-cracking american with guns and a broad sword, you're handing the IP over to an unsuccessful british developer who understands the american market even less and has a history of making games that has tried to rip off asian themes, not to mention their past games were nowhere near as successful as any of the DMC games, it doesn't make any sense.

    What it comes down to is that Ninja Theory is a bad choice, it's not like you're handing the franchise over to Bungie or Respawn. The industry is very successful with dudebro characters, the new Dante is as far from dudebro as you can get, it's CLEAR Ninja Theory and Tameem Antoniades don't get this, they don't get what makes games successful in the western market, they think british punk arthouse, they don't really concentrate on gameplay design, they like to blow a lot of money just on production values and mo-cap, and it's not a recipe for success.
     
    #115 Kittonwy, Sep 24, 2010
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  16. Sigfried1977

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    While I sorta agree about them not spending enough money on gameplay aspects, I'm happy they don't subscribe to the same insultingly stupid macho broism philosophy most other studios do. Those games can all burn on a cinder for all I care.

    I'm looking forward to it myself.
     
  17. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    I'm saying that--by your logic--any changes made to the franchise are not "legitimate," because Kamiya hasn't been involved. Character design, story, action... So you are in essence making a deal about any changes whatsoever.

    Obviously DMC and the genre in general owes a lot to Kamiya (and Mikami), but it seems rather rude to the rest of the team to say "nope, no changes, guys. No deviations. No personal touches. No experimentation. Can't do it!" :razz:

    DMC2 was a stumble, but nowhere near a "came close to destroying" considering how many copies it sold. One could of course thank Kamiya and the strength of the first title (and that a drop would be expected if your creative direction went elsewhere), but then DMC3 was a solid return to form with a lot of expansion, and even DMC2 brought in a number of elements that stuck with the series from then on. And DMC4 was a strong-enough entry, even if it didn't continue a DMC3 legacy of improvements.

    While DMC was all manner of influential, I don't believe Kamiya gets to claim anything introduced in the next seven years be default. Enhanced sales can be attributed to appreciation of the series and its legacy, but it's not like if DMC3 didn't revolve around Dante it would have been a bad game. (And heck, even DMC2's camera issues probably would have been forgiven if it had higher difficulty modes.)



    Meanwhile, nothing is clear about the new DmC title from the Ninja Theory perspective, except that they were apparently trying to hang fairly tight to the original image first, and Capcom kept pushing them further away. So now they have a different look and a story that's been signed off on.

    Might Capcom be making a mistake is pushing a reboot? Quite possibly. But hey, their series their prerogative. Might Ninja Theory be the wrong match for it? Possibly, but hey their title their prerogative. What will NT do with the opportunity...? We'll see.



    Too many people are taking this as personal insult, however. The original title was not awesome because Dante was the character of all characters, his design the design to end all design, and the story was the story to end all stories... Frankly, both Dante and the story were pretty stock, but enjoyable. What set DMC apart was the gameplay. It broke the ice for what 3D action/hack-and-slash could do, and opened the door to your Ninja Gaidens and Gods of War, among others. It's also the only thing people really judged the other DMC's on, too.

    I think from a story perspective, NT is likely to deliver much better than the other DMC's, to the point that one would "get the new Dante," or at least forget initial knee-jerk objections. From a gameplay standpoint, however...? As with any of these games, "we'll see."

    The proof of the pudding is in the hugely-stylized combos. :razz:
     
  18. Phil

    Phil wipEout bastard
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    And that's exactly why I'm perhaps most surprised why Capcom chose to outsource this to, of all developers, Ninja Theory.

    You're exactly right that the strong point of the series has always been it's gameplay. And gameplay is the one area where the game has never really disappointed - yet, they chose the one developer that never really delievered in exactly this area?

    To be honest, DMC has been on the downhill after the first game. Perhaps the gameplay was improved further in DMC3, but as good as the combat was, I always felt the series needed the real (old-age) Dante. At least in DMC3 we got to play Dante. With high hopes I bought DMC4, only to realize that we don't get to play as Dante, but as Nero. Nero IMO isn't nearly a likable character as Dante. The story was extremely weak and the cheesy cutscenes a disgrace (IMO) compared to the amount of style the first DMC had.

    None the less, the series still has it's amazing gameplay, for which it is loved and bought by fans. And right up until Capcom gave this away to Ninja Theory, there was also hope that the series would improve to its older form one day and perhaps with a new story based around Dante.

    Now that DMC5 has gone to NT, we have even less. We clearly aren't getting the Dante we like and there's even less hope we'll be getting the gameplay or the framerate that the series had until the last game. And with the direction they've now taken (with or without Capcoms consent, I really don't care), I've also lost hope that the series will go back to where it once was. Maybe some of the negativity is unfounded and undeserved, but given what I saw in the trailer, it's everything but the DMC I was hoping for.
     
  19. Kittonwy

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    I respectfully disagree. If gameplay is the most crucial aspect of DMC, which it is, then Ninja Theory would be the wrong choice of developer, Ninja Theory has never been known for having great gameplay design.

    And it's not about stylized combos that simply look elaborate, it's about instant combos that the player can freely put together, THAT is not what Ninja Theory is known for, Ninja Theory is known for fancy, Andy Serkis-directed mo-capped cutscenes and using a lot of extensive QTEs, which is NOT what DMC gameplay is about, and as a result they will be alienating most of their core userbase.

    As for story, frankly I didn't care for Ninja Theory's story-telling in Heavenly Sword either as there are better story-tellers out there, or their propensity to ape chinese mythology as a source material purely as a gimmick and without even a shred of authenticity. At the end of the day, if you're looking for a developer known for great gameplay design, Ninja Theory would not be the one to go to.
     
    #119 Kittonwy, Sep 24, 2010
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  20. Xenus

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    I may be looking at this at a different way but couldn't Ninja theory being weak in gameplay but strong in other area's be exactly why they chose them? They already know how to make the combat in DMC they wouldn't outsource if all they wanted to do was tweak the combat. Thus it seems to me Capcom was going for a true collaboration in so far as the developer they chose has weaknesses that are their strengths and vice versa. Which to me makes more sense then picking a dev company that's you're clone and has the same weaknesses.
     
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