Can Xbox 360 get back the missing GB from it's DVD?

[eastmen]

I'm sorry , was GTA 4 part 2 announced at some point ? Not only that was it announced with mandatory hardrive support or dual discs on the xbox 360 ?

If gta 4 sells better on the 360 whiich it surely will , then the next part of it will fit on a dvd . Its that simple , rockstar and take 2 are not going to give up the majority of the market .

 

[-tkf-]

I'm sorry , was GTA 4 part 2 announced at some point ? Not only that was it announced with mandatory hardrive support or dual discs on the xbox 360 ?

If gta 4 sells better on the 360 whiich it surely will , then the next part of it will fit on a dvd . Its that simple , rockstar and take 2 are not going to give up the majority of the market .

How many arcades are still without harddrives, and how many of them bought GTA4. I think Rockstar would need these numbers before they made a decision

 

[eastmen]

How many arcades are still without harddrives, and how many of them bought GTA4. I think Rockstar would need these numbers before they made a decision

I'm sorry , this makes no sense. Are you telling me that rockstar would love to give up millions of sales by making the next game not fit on a dvd ?

 

[liolio]

Either way core/arcade owner will be screwed at least when it comes to GTA. HDD install=screwed, Large DLC=screwed. If Microsoft plans on doing HD installs they better lower the prices of the hard drives or just let us install our own(I wish).

I would add they are likely to be screwed with a very likely upcoming patch.

But it's clear that at some point MS would have to lower the price of the HDD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm sorry , this makes no sense .
Are you telling me that rockstar would love to give up millions of sales by making the next game not fit on a dvd ?

No. Following the discussion...

I'm sorry , was GTA 4 part 2 announced at some point ? Not only that was it announced with mandatory hardrive support or dual discs on the xbox 360 ?

How many arcades are still without harddrives, and how many of them bought GTA4. I think Rockstar would need these numbers before they made a decision [/quote]
A dual disc game isn't going to exclude XB360. And the presence of a large proportion of HDD equipped units offers up the possibility of a game with a large install and reliance then on only a second DVD. The only people who would be excluded in that instance would be Core/Arcade-ers who haven't upgraded, which we understand is a minimal percentage, and they can always upgrade.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I would add they are likely to be screwed with a very likely upcoming patch.

But it's clear that at some point MS would have to lower the price of the HDD.

The patch will exclude everyone (yes ps3 owners too) who doesn't have their console online anyway, HDD or not. I'd say the number of people running the arcade units online is probably low.

 

[liolio]

The patch will exclude everyone (yes ps3 owners too) who doesn't have their console online anyway, HDD or not. I'd say the number of people running the arcade units online is probably low.

make sense, I put thing in the worng way.

 

[LightHeaven]

No it hasn't.

GTAIV is a game as far from the norm as it gets, with its 8 hours of cutscenes and extensive storylines. GTAIV, they say, is the most expensive game to make, ever, with more than 100 mln USD. And it still fit.

How many games will afford double that budget? Bytes are expensive to produce, plain and simple. Even with better tools, filling up a BD-25 will be at least twice as expensive as filling up a "DVD-7".

Even among the behemoths with 200-person teams, how many games will afford to cripple their 360 version, by splitting into multiple DVDs?

When the gen is said and done, and only the shovelware remains - sometimes in 2011 - we should take the list of 100 highest-ranking or bestselling games for the Xbox 360 and measure how many of them were within 90% of the DVD capacity. You win if more than half of them are

He wins right now because pretty much all 360 games fills more than 90% of the disc.

If you look at any torrent site you like you won't find a single 360 game that has less than 6.X gigs... Even that Live arcade Compilations cross that line.

For me, the fact that basically every single game already fills almost the entire disc is quite telling wheter or not 360's dvd will hold or not throught the rest of the generation.

 

[vazel]

I wonder wether some of those x360 games are padded. If you check you'll see nearly all Wii games are padded to DVD5. Most likely to push data to the outer edge of the disc to decrease load times(and probably to give pirates bigger files to download). This was also sometimes done for PS2 games like Darkstalkers Collection(the actual game data is only about 850MB but with padding the game disc fills up a DVD5).

edit: Lego Star Wars II for x360 takes up over 6 gigs. Do you really believe a game like that takes up that much space with game data alone?
Culdcept Saga is over 6 gigs too.
Bully(as in the barely enhanced PS2 port) is over 6 gigs too.

 

[paawl]

He wins right now because pretty much all 360 games fills more than 90% of the disc.

If you look at any torrent site you like you won't find a single 360 game that has less than 6.X gigs... Even that Live arcade Compilations cross that line.

For me, the fact that basically every single game already fills almost the entire disc is quite telling wheter or not 360's dvd will hold or not throught the rest of the generation.

I can't tell if you already realize this or not, but I think that's a copy protection measure. The six games on the XBLA "Unplugged" disc total less than 300 MB if downloaded directly from XBLA. Yet, the ISO filesystem is 7+ GB. That can only be because MS wants to force people with modded 360s to download huge files and burn to more expensive dual-layer discs.

The one datum point I have to offer is Halo 3, which, according to Bungie (see slide 87 in the presentation linked below), ended up 5.36 GB on disc.

http://www.bungie.net/images/Inside/publications/presentations/Loading___done_gdc_2008.pptx

I suppose other points of comparison could be Oblivion and Assassin's Creed, which, on the PC, are 4.5 and 5.9 GB, respectively.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

No it hasn't.

GTAIV is a game as far from the norm as it gets, with its 8 hours of cutscenes and extensive storylines. GTAIV, they say, is the most expensive game to make, ever, with more than 100 mln USD. And it still fit.

How many games will afford double that budget? Bytes are expensive to produce, plain and simple. Even with better tools, filling up a BD-25 will be at least twice as expensive as filling up a "DVD-7".

I dont think that proves anything. GTAIV would have been better if both consoles where using BD.

Just because GTA4 costed 100mln to make, doesn't mean anything, the only reason GTA4 fits on a DVD9 is because they had to make it fit. The fact that they complely maxed out the storage on the DVD9 (after taking away the reserved for MS space) shows that most likely they would benefit from having more storage space.

If GTA4 was coming out on consoles where both had Bluray, they would have made different design choices in their development to utilize that.

Filling up a BD-25 is not necessarily more expensive either, i dont know where you get this from, its all in the design choices. Resistance is 20gb. It didn't cost more than GTA4 to make, they simply made differen't choices in how to use the space their given.

 

[joker454]

That would depend on Microsofts willingness to "admit" that no mandatory HD was a mistake, in the sense that they would give up those that have a HD-less v360. I doubt that, i can see a 2 disc version where you have to swap discs when going from one "city" to another (and again a game designed around this to reduce the swaps) and the same for multiplayer where you have to select map and swap discs before starting the game.

Having a non hdd console option was not necessarily a mistake, although I do think that Microsoft missed an opportunity to capitalize off that idea due to poor pricing of the hdd-less model and ridiculous hdd accessory pricing.

I don't think disc swapping will work for a GTA game. At this point I'll go out on a limb and predict that GTA5 will require an hdd install, if they want to be at parity with the PS3 version. The game will almost certainly get bigger than the current one so as far as I see it there is really no other choice. I don't think the dlc option will work for this game either, since to the market it will appear that the PS3 is the complete version and the 360 will be the gimped version that requires an extra download/dlc purchase just to match up.

There aren't many companies that can muscle Microsoft to change their policies. EA has done it and I think the GTA franchise will do it as well.

 

[bkilian]

I agree the general concept remains. MS is seeing high profile titles arrive on its system despite DVD9 being limiting in instances.

As of now Im not sure how DVD hasnt been proven to be "enough" for this generation as the system isnt lacking titles now or in the "known" future. These titles are comparable to the competitions on a storage medium that provides considerably less storage.

If anything I think the statement, "DVD is not sufficient for all games of this generation to fit on one disk", is correct.

Correct, and who cares?

I have a few games that use more than a single DVD on the 360. Blue Dragon, at 3, and Lost Oddyssey, at 4. And so what? Oh god, I have to get up every twenty hours or so and *gasp* change discs. The horror...

Games like Mass Effect, which took me 50 hours for a playthrough, and Oblivion, which at 100+ hours, I've still not finished, prove that DVD doesn't limit the amount of gameplay you can get. All it does is give a reasonable limit for textures, and encourage you to do cut scenes in the game engine.

I'm all for amazing textures and ridiculous amounts of cut scenes, but as "Portal" proves, you don't need a huge amount of space to make a great game.

 

[vazel]

Enchanted Arms is one disc(At 3 discs you probably meant Blue Dragon). And to be fair Mass Effect had generic looking side missions and Oblivion operated on a template which made much of the game look very similar. Although if that was due to DVD size limitations or budget who knows.

 

[rekator]

For the DVD space limitation, I think we have to look to PC games who got better textures (so need more place) than console… Crysis is a good start (large scape, etc) and fit on one DVD?

And for the use of Blu-ray enabled for use of big textures… you have always to fit your textures in 512 Mb and with the same bandwitch, so it's better to have well good compress system for textures than texture who got big size.

The only need for more stockage (with this console generation) is for CG who need a big lot of place in 1080p (and also for the PR) but personally with this generation of console I think we don't need CG, all the cut-scene can be made in real-time with the game engine, we allready have a lot of game who made this with .

 

[woundingchaney]

For the DVD space limitation, I think we have to look to PC games who got better textures (so need more place) than console… Crysis is a good start (large scape, etc) and fit on one DVD?

Crysis full install 6.50 gig.

 

[-tkf-]

Crysis full install 6.50 gig.

Never got around to invest a few millions into my PC so i could play this game

So, maybe you can answer me, is Crysis a texture heavy game? The first one didn´t seem texture heavy at all, pretty much the same scenery from start to end.

 

[woundingchaney]

Never got around to invest a few millions into my PC so i could play this game

So, maybe you can answer me, is Crysis a texture heavy game? The first one didn´t seem texture heavy at all, pretty much the same scenery from start to end.

Primarily depends on what portion of the game one is viewing. Its not by any means the most "texture heavy" game I have played, although it is heavier than most.

By the first one do you mean FarCry??

 

[almighty]

Ive always said it and i still stand by it, going with DVD will eventually bite Microsoft in the ass.

BR did'nt make a difference a few years back but as time goes on it will become more clear that it was a correct choice.

Some games will work with multiple disks, others wont and IMHO, GTA is one of those games that wont.

 

[-tkf-]

Primarily depends on what portion of the game one is viewing. Its not by any means the most "texture heavy" game I have played, although it is heavier than most.

By the first one do you mean FarCry??

Yes Farcry, not alot happening in the texture department on that game either.