BumpMapping on PS2

[ShinHoshi]

Well this is a well-know technique that can be certain used on PS2, and I have ps2-linux demos that prove it...
But after many conversations with people I have the doubt about if it has been applied on commercial games or not...
I was under the impression that Tekken Tag Tournament used it on some floors (Ogre Stage for instance) or games like Burnout 2 on the asphalt...And renderware says so...

Am I blind and this are just tricks or can it be considered bump-mapping ?

It's not that I can't sleep without knowing it, just pure curiosity.


Thanks in advance, masters.

 

[akira888]

Embossing is one method that's been used since at least the Voodoo2 IIRC.

 

[AlNom]

Can DOT3BM be done?

(reasonably well)

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Primal and Ghost Hunter both use bump mapping, so does Champions of Norath. There are other titles as well, but I cannot recall their names.

 

[Thowllly]

Well this is a well-know technique that can be certain used on PS2, and I have ps2-linux demos that prove it...
But after many conversations with people I have the doubt about if it has been applied on commercial games or not...
I was under the impression that Tekken Tag Tournament used it on some floors (Ogre Stage for instance)

Ah, yes, I know what you mean. Some stages uses a really cool effect that looks like EMBM (Environment-Mapped Bump Mapping), but I think it's just a really high detail mesh plus an environment map. That is actually a good thing, the real deal instead of faking it. But not so good if your looking for bumpmapping I guess...

or games like Burnout 2 on the asphalt...And renderware says so...

Am I blind and this are just tricks or can it be considered bump-mapping ?

Don't know what Burout 2 uses. It could be that they use prebaked bumpmaps, which is usually not considered real bumpmapping. There is a real way to do bumpmaps that is very cheap and works well for directional lightsources (like the sun. It can work for local lights too, but not as well, at least not for large objects). For every object you want to bumpmap, use a CLUT texture where each of the color entries are surface normals, and then just do the bumpmap calculations for each of those 256 possible normals, instead of for every pixel on the screen the object covers. I do however belive that this teqnicue is pateneted, so I don't know if anyone uses it.

 

[ShinHoshi]

I always thought Primal trusted on nice texturing rather than Bump-Mapping...Nice to hear it.

 

[zurich]

Primal and Ghost Hunter both use bump mapping, so does Champions of Norath. There are other titles as well, but I cannot recall their names.

I disagree. CoN is definitely pre-baked.

 

[randycat99]

It looked damn good, though! I was stopping to admire the textures often in this game. I don't really care if it is "real" or not, if this is what is possible on the console.

 

[wazoo]

I always thought Primal trusted on nice texturing rather than Bump-Mapping...Nice to hear it.

Hearing it on a forum is hardly a confirmation on Primal doing bump mapping.

I only know one game on ps2 with "advertised" bump mapping, this is stretch panic by Treasure.

 

[Simon F]

Can DOT3BM be done?

(reasonably well)

It's been discussed quite a lot in previous threads (in the console forum I think) usually in the context of a DC vs PS2 features debate which I've vowed (to myself) to avoid.
Do a search.

 

[London Geezer]

Hearing it on a forum is hardly a confirmation on Primal doing bump mapping.

I only know one game on ps2 with "advertised" bump mapping, this is stretch panic by Treasure.

...Which it does not... Finished the game many times, seen all there was to see, and no BM to be seen.

 

[VNZ]

...Which it does not... Finished the game many times, seen all there was to see, and no BM to be seen.

You finished that horrendous game, multiple times?! That's... unique.

Anyway, there's sort of a bonus toy accessible from the main hub -- I believe you open it by ringing the bell -- where you can play with the über-boobalicuous bikini character and select a couple of filters / modes. If I recall correctly one of them features embossed BM. Not very impressive, though.

 

[wazoo]

...Which it does not... Finished the game many times, seen all there was to see, and no BM to be seen.

for what it worth

http://insider.ign.com/articles/301/301459p1.html

 

[London Geezer]

...Which it does not... Finished the game many times, seen all there was to see, and no BM to be seen.

for what it worth

http://insider.ign.com/articles/301/301459p1.html

I know, and part of the reason i bought it was because i wanted to see first hand BM on Ps2. It's just not there.
Many things have been "advertised", but that doesn't necessarily means it's true.
I'm still waiting for bump mapping on Naughty Dog's engine (J&D1 was supposed to support it already), i'm still waiting for Climax engine that pushes 20M polys with AA and High Res textures on PS2, i'm still waiting for my headache to go away...

 

[AlNom]

Can DOT3BM be done?

(reasonably well)

It's been discussed quite a lot in previous threads (in the console forum I think) usually in the context of a DC vs PS2 features debate which I've vowed (to myself) to avoid.
Do a search.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[marconelly!]

Here's the post that I've made in another thread on another board:

BGDA and Champions almost certainly use some kind of bumpmapping, but it's not DOT3, but rather something simpler (and I'm not talking about pre-baked BM in Champions, btw). Looks more like emboss bumpmapping, which is much easier to do on the PS2. BGDA and Champions also have highly detailed geometry on their floors and walls, so they basically just render almost every little bump with polygons (many people though the bumpy stone floors are bumpmapping, but they are actually very detailed polygonal surfaces (you can tell because bumps actually occlude characters)) Emboss BM is used on some really super-tiny details like small bones on the floor, and I haven't seen it being used very often. In Champions, they also use pre-baked bumpmaped textures for some really tiny details, but I don't think they've used that in BGDA

I haven't seen any BM in Primal, and none in the Ghosthunter videos. Jak 3 apparently uses bumpmapping somewhere (at least that's what developers said, but I could swear there aren't any in the videos) SH3 also uses some crazy specular effect which combined with animated textures gives an effect of bumpmapping, but walls in the rooms where that effect goes off are so weird looking that it's impossible to really tell what is going on.

TTT ogre stage is also all geometry + env or specular map.

In other words, there are no commercial games that I know of that use DOT3 bumpmapping on PS2.

 

[overclocked]

I don´t understand why this BM comes upp when talking about the PS2. The hardware dont support it as a viable feature.

 

[London Geezer]

Here's the post that I've made in another thread on another board:

BGDA and Champions almost certainly use some kind of bumpmapping, but it's not DOT3, but rather something simpler (and I'm not talking about pre-baked BM in Champions, btw). Looks more like emboss bumpmapping, which is much easier to do on the PS2. BGDA and Champions also have highly detailed geometry on their floors and walls, so they basically just render almost every little bump with polygons (many people though the bumpy stone floors are bumpmapping, but they are actually very detailed polygonal surfaces (you can tell because bumps actually occlude characters)) Emboss BM is used on some really super-tiny details like small bones on the floor, and I haven't seen it being used very often. In Champions, they also use pre-baked bumpmaped textures for some really tiny details, but I don't think they've used that in BGDA

I haven't seen any BM in Primal, and none in the Ghosthunter videos. Jak 3 apparently uses bumpmapping somewhere (at least that's what developers said, but I could swear there aren't any in the videos) SH3 also uses some crazy specular effect which combined with animated textures gives an effect of bumpmapping, but walls in the rooms where that effect goes off are so weird looking that it's impossible to really tell what is going on.

TTT ogre stage is also all geometry + env or specular map.

In other words, there are no commercial games that I know of that use DOT3 bumpmapping on PS2.

I was quite sure that emboss was used on some surfaces on the characters of DOA2, some tops and boots for example, but i can't be sure.
The girl's top in Primal "looks" bump mapped, but someone around here confirmed that it is not. It's some kind of trick. In the end it looks cool enough so who cares...

 

[marconelly!]

The girl's top in Primal "looks" bump mapped, but someone around here confirmed that it is not. It's some kind of trick.

Well, it's not really a trick. It's a specular mapping, not bump mapping.

 

[London Geezer]

The girl's top in Primal "looks" bump mapped, but someone around here confirmed that it is not. It's some kind of trick.

Well, it's not really a trick. It's a specular mapping, not bump mapping.

Yeah but specular in itself doesn't make things look bumpy, and her top is kinda... errmmm.. bumpy... excuse the pun...