BR/HD-DVD Thread

[wco81]

HD-DVD's interactive layer is an MS API, I heard. Disney cited the BR interactive layer as one of the reasons it chose BR. If they do adopt the HD-DVD interactive layer, it could just be a compromise, just so they could say the unified format has elements of both formats. Toshiba proposed their disc format and BR multilayering technology. Sony and Panasonic rejected giving up their physical disc format. Toshiba realizes their multilayering is inferior. So the interactive layer may be the only way they get their thumbprint on the proposed unified format.

The studios want things like transparent menus over video playback. They also want to be able to have you download subtitle or additional language tracks, commentary tracks and extra content over an Internet connection. Actually one of the format would even have local storage for downloaded content while the other was focusing on streaming.

For consumers, you have to wonder how long the studios would maintain these servers. If they release a disc of a movie which wasn't the biggest hit, would they bother continuing to maintain infrastructure to provide content for it? Plus a lot of people don't want to have to connect a disc player to the Internet (not to mention bear higher prices for connectivity and storage components).

 

[PC-Engine]

Yes comment. You do not.

You know this for a fact too?

Oh, so now Nintendo already has a sample of the new format? Before Toshiba and Sony!? Either that or they're using the "old" HDDVD disc, which by the time Rev comes out will be totally useless, just like the "old" Blueray format.

Why would the old HD DVDs become obsolete. Did you just come back from the future? What if Samsung/Toshiba found a way to manufacture hybrid BR/HD DVD drives? You are aware that HD DVD continues forward and 85+ HD DVD movies will be released right?

 

[London Geezer]

You know this for a fact too?

My god what is it? Work-For-Whoever-You-Want week? You do not work for Nintendo, like Nirey doesn't work for Sony and whoever else (but the ones we have known for a long time, like archie, faf and a very few others here) don't.

Why would the old HD DVDs become obsolete. Did you just come back from the future? What if Samsung/Toshiba found a way to manufacture hybrid BR/HD DVD drives?

What if what if what if... I'm too tired for this.

What exactly are we discussing about now? That Nintendo will use HDDVD on Rev? Fine, how can i argue with that...

 

[PC-Engine]

My god what is it? Work-For-Whoever-You-Want week? You do not work for Nintendo, like Nirey doesn't work for Sony and whoever else (but the ones we have known for a long time, like archie, faf and a very few others here) don't.

My god do you know who I work for? If you don't then how can you rule out Nintendo? Is there a reason why it's impossible that I could possibly work for vs at Nintendo? BTW never have I mentioned anything about working for Nintendo ever. There are policies against that.

What if what if what if... I'm too tired for this.

What exactly are we discussing about now? That Nintendo will use HDDVD on Rev? Fine, how can i argue with that...

I'll put it this way, Samsung and Toshiba have a joint venture called TSST and they're working on a dual format drive. That's all I'm going to say...

 

[aaaaa00]

It's also been mentioned that the BDA wants to dump the Java software layer and go with HD DVD's software.

PC-Engine +1.

The general rumbling I've been hearing is that the BDA thinks Java is overkill: too hard and too expensive to implement.

Everything that's needed can be done with a simple scripting layer, no need for a full Java VM. Which, incidentally, is exactly what HD DVD's been working on.

 

[London Geezer]

My god do you know who I work for? If you don't then how can you rule out Nintendo? Is there a reason why it's impossible that I could possibly work for vs at Nintendo? BTW never have I mentioned anything about working for Nintendo ever. There are policies against that.

Whatever. If you worked for N, it wouldn't have come up now, and certain thing you've said in the last year or so would not have been said. Also, i tend to think that people at Nintendo are intelligent, and do not have time to post on forums being mindless trolls like you are.

I'll put it this way, Samsung and Toshiba have a joint venture called TSST and they're working on a dual format drive. That's all I'm going to say...

Well then fine. Sony and toshiba said "it woul dbe better" if there was ONE format, not one drive, which leads me to believe that they rather see one format with one drive than 2 formats with a hybrid drive. But i'm open to being corrected of course.

 

[PC-Engine]

Whatever. If you worked for N, it wouldn't have come up now, and certain thing you've said in the last year or so would not have been said. Also, i tend to think that people at Nintendo are intelligent, and do not have time to post on forums being mindless trolls like you are.

What do you mean it hasn't come up until now? Nobody claimed I didn't work for Nintendo until now either. I still haven't claimed anything about working for or at Nintendo. I'm just saying the possibility exists. There's a difference.

But just to give you something to chew on, if I worked for Nintendo but wanted to troll, I wouldn't want to tell the world I work for Nintendo unless I wanted to give the impressive people who work for Nintendo are trolls.

BTW it was SONY who publicly extended the olive branch because they KNOW TSST is working on a hybrid drive which makes Blu-ray only drives and players like PS3 obsolete. Toshiba wins regardless if there is one format or two.

 

[Phil]

No pun intended, but I would think you have far too much time on your hands to hold any valuable position at a company like Nintendo (that would actually have you get insider disks like that).

Anyway, the far more point which has been ignored until now is - even if Revolution does get a HD-dvd drive, I'd very much doubt that internal development is actually disk based but rather streamed via network from a server. I would think the format, if being hd-dvd or bluray or whatever, would be something that's implemented at the very last minute - meaning when full production start and internal testing and development is more or less finished.

That also includes the point that I wouldn't know what a Nintendo official with a HD-dvd would want to stick that thing into? A DVD Drive won't read it and neither will a CD-Rom drive. And I quite doubt that they've got HD-DVD drives lying around, much less that there's one in that DELL laptop.

 

[PC-Engine]

Just wanted to make it clear that those pictures are not mine. I was just pointing out that you really can't prove it's fake just because you believe so. Now as far as me working for Nintendo why isn't it possible? I've worked for both THQ and Vivendi/Universal so why not Nintendo?

As far as the disc is concerned, why would it be unlikely that HD DVD drives exists? Blu-ray players/recorders have existed commercially for a couple years already. Since HD DVD drives are only intended for development and testing use only and not sold commercially, why would it be unlikely? Also how do you think QA teams test software builds without the discs?

 

[snacky]

PC-Engine: How about instead of ruining this thread with off-topic nonsense about how important and interesting you are, you create your own personal phpBB board or something? You could have many interesting discussions with yourself about all the companies you may or may not work for. And you could do so without cluttering up these boards with the completely asinine pissing contest between you and london-boy.

Indeed, there should probably be a forum for just the two of you, since you enjoy spending so much time corresponding with each other. This way you would both cease making this forum so painful to read.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Far more interesting than if that disc is real or fake (imo it could as well be either, I believe N will use a disc with HD DVD format), or where PC-Engine works (imo I think he is a pool boy) is the "RS" and that logo with two linked rectangles.
If that disc is real, what could they mean.

DS is Dual Screen, with two similar rectangles on the logo, but positioned as two DS screens.

Now what could RS mean. Would the S be also for Screen, but then the rectangles would not make much sense.

 

[one]

It's also been mentioned that the BDA wants to dump the Java software layer and go with HD DVD's software.

Source?
Heck today even cellphones carry Java.

Sony and Panasonic rejected giving up their physical disc format. Toshiba realizes their multilayering is inferior. So the interactive layer may be the only way they get their thumbprint on the proposed unified format.

Toshiba can offer another thing actually, it's PRML (Partial Response Maximum Likelihood) signal processing method in HD-DVD, which won't need to change the BD-ROM 0.1mm layer.

 

[randycat99]

...or where PC-Engine works (imo I think he is a pool boy)...

I was having a similar thought earlier on. ...or maybe he fetches the coffee or something, eh?

More possibly, I think he is just doing his part to bring that "GA scene" flavor to us here (the one where you pretend to be in da biz). This would square pretty well with my past observations that there is a very distinct "monkey-see, monkey-do" component to him.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Or more likely, the guy who supplies the watercoolers. That way he'd have even more access to inside information

 

[London Geezer]

BTW it was SONY who publicly extended the olive branch because they KNOW TSST is working on a hybrid drive which makes Blu-ray only drives and players like PS3 obsolete. Toshiba wins regardless if there is one format or two.

Well... What exactly is stopping Sony to make and release hybrid players of their own then?
If Toshiba wins regardless of two formats, then Sony does too.

But of course it's better for your dream world that Toshiba or anyone else will "win", while Sony will rot in hell. No news there.

In the end, the latest announcement was about a "hybrid format".

If that means that there will be a format that somehow is compatible with existing players of both HDDVD and BlueRay, we'll just have to see. Who in their right mind would buy an HDDVD or Blueray player now is beyond me, but there are a lot of people with a lot of money to spend like that. Ultimately, i'm guessing these "old" players will be just replaced with the new ones very soon and HDDVD and Blueray (in their exclusive forms) will be forgotten soon. Whatever name the new format will have.

I do agree with you that keeping the HDDVD name would be wise. We're entering the "HD Era" (CRINGE), and everyone is being brainwashed now with HD everywhere... Even HD microwaves.

 

[PC-Engine]

...or where PC-Engine works (imo I think he is a pool boy)...

I was having a similar thought earlier on. ...or maybe he fetches the coffee or something, eh?

More possibly, I think he is just doing his part to bring that "GA scene" flavor to us here (the one where you pretend to be in da biz). This would square pretty well with my past observations that there is a very distinct "monkey-see, monkey-do" component to him.

Or the typical post leeching from Mr. RandyCat because he couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag--> WherZ da Untaptd ggifloPz livez mr. Randcatz ???

Anyway...

Well... What exactly is stopping Sony to make and release hybrid players of their own then?
If Toshiba wins regardless of two formats, then Sony does too.

The point is SONY would have to license HD DVD for their own hybrid drives. They don't have a joint venture like Samsung/Toshiba does. They don't have a HD DVD partner. They're the lone Blu-ray cowboy and they've painted themselves into a corner by having a Blu-ray only drive in PS3. Samsung has a Blu-ray license, Toshiba has a HD DVD license. SONY doesn't have a HD DVD license but it would require one for them to be able to make hybrid drives.

 

[London Geezer]

The point is SONY would have to license HD DVD for their own hybrid drives. They don't have a joint venture like Samsung/Toshiba does. They don't have a HD DVD partner. They're the lone Blu-ray cowboy and they've painted themselves into a corner by having a Blu-ray only drive in PS3. Samsung has a Blu-ray license, Toshiba has a HD DVD license. SONY doesn't have a HD DVD license but it would require one for them to be able to make hybrid drives.

And that is a huge insormountable problem... how?

I mean, Sony players will be overpriced anyway, cause they're Sony, so i don't think putting in the cost of a licence would hurt them a lot.

Last time i checked, Toshiba is as much part of the PS3 project as the next guy, so really this licensing "issue" isn't an issue at all.

Also, where did you get the idea that They're the lone Blu-ray cowboy and they've painted themselves into a corner by having a Blu-ray only drive in PS3?? Last time i checked, the movie market is split in half over who can release on BDROM or HDDVD, with a very few exclusive players.

Oh wait, you have teh inziderz infoh... Err...

 

[PC-Engine]

The point is SONY would have to license HD DVD for their own hybrid drives. They don't have a joint venture like Samsung/Toshiba does. They don't have a HD DVD partner. They're the lone Blu-ray cowboy and they've painted themselves into a corner by having a Blu-ray only drive in PS3. Samsung has a Blu-ray license, Toshiba has a HD DVD license. SONY doesn't have a HD DVD license but it would require one for them to be able to make hybrid drives.

And that is a huge insormountable problem... how?

I mean, Sony players will be overpriced anyway, cause they're Sony, so i don't think putting in the cost of a licence would hurt them a lot.

Also, where did you get the idea that They're the lone Blu-ray cowboy and they've painted themselves into a corner by having a Blu-ray only drive in PS3?? Last time i checked, the movie market is split in half over who can release on BDROM or HDDVD, with a very few exclusive players.

Oh wait, you have teh inziderz infoh... Err...

It's not only about cost, it's about pride. SONY prides itself with using it's own technology. For example look at PS3, they planned on doing everyting inhouse, but then had to resort to Nvidia. If they had gone with Nvidia in the first place and acknowledged that maybe they didn't design such a great GPU in PS2 and that PS3's GPU would even be more difficult, they wouldn't have needed to backpedal.

As for Blu-ray in PS3, can't you see it? They firmly insisted on Blu-ray for PS3, even though they very well know that half of Hollywood supports HD DVD, that's pretty stubborn. That means PS3 won't be compatible with a large chunk of the HD DVD movies to be released. At least Toshiba has a Blu-ray partner in the form of Samsung to negate any Blu-ray HD DVD movie incompatibility.

 

[London Geezer]

It's not only about cost, it's about pride. SONY prides itself with using it's own technology. For example look at PS3, they planned on doing everyting inhouse, but then had to resort to Nvidia. If they had gone with Nvidia in the first place and acknowledged that maybe they didn't design such a great GPU in PS2 and that PS3's GPU would even be more difficult, they wouldn't have needed to backpedal.

Well, don't you think that the fact that IBM, Toshiba, Nvidia and god knows who else is working on PS3 now, is proof that your "pride" argument is a bit flawed? Sony obviously has NO problem letting people do jobs for them, i don't see how it should be different over a simple drive.

As for Blu-ray in PS3, can't you see it? They firmly insisted on Blu-ray for PS3, even though they very well know that half of Hollywood supports HD DVD, that's pretty stubborn. That means PS3 won't be compatible with a large chunk of the HD DVD movies to be released. At least Toshiba has a Blu-ray partner in the form of Samsung to negate any Blu-ray HD DVD movie incompatibility.

Half of Hollywood supports HDDVD... The other half supports BDROM...
You're taking for granted many things, like i am, over things that we have no way to see how they will pan out, so i'm not sure why we're bothering discussing this. After 41 pages.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's not only about cost, it's about pride. SONY prides itself with using it's own technology. For example look at PS3, they planned on doing everyting inhouse, but then had to resort to Nvidia. If they had gone with Nvidia in the first place and acknowledged that maybe they didn't design such a great GPU in PS2 and that PS3's GPU would even be more difficult, they wouldn't have needed to backpedal.

1) I think you read too much into a business decision. They ran 3 possible solutions and picked the one that suited them best (for all we know). 2) Choosing nVidia shows Sony aren't too proud to change their mind or use non-proprietary formats. Just as they changed their mind with .mp3 playback on PSP. Sony seems to be making more sensible decisions these days.

They firmly insisted on Blu-ray for PS3, even though they very well know that half of Hollywood supports HD DVD, that's pretty stubborn.

Please link to the article that says half of Hollywood won't be releasing to BluRay. Agreeing to publish to one format doesn't instantly mean NOT publishing to another. Also, BluRay's announcement for PS3 came long before any Hollywood announcements of studios publishing to HD-DVD, even if this publishing were HD-DVD exclusive