Battlefield 3 Xbox360 two disc solution

[Kasersky]

Upon release i strongly believed that battlefield 3 would split the campaign on two discs since data overlap ends up accounting for most of the space on disc and in order to get the most storage out of two discs they would do the following...

Disc 1 = Single player campaign part 1, Multiplayer Online
Disc 2 = Single player campaign part 2

but it turns out they've gone with something completely radical and not seen before.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-13-ea-explains-bf3-xbox-360-disc-split

"Disc one features the stunning multiplayer, co-op levels and HD installation content.
"Disc two features the superb single-player campaign."

and yes HD means high definition content.

so essentially disc 1 contains a high detail asset pack. i have to say what an incredibly elegant solution.

xbox has the problem with having to develop games for essentially two skus (xbox with hdd and without a hdd) now disc 2 which holds the campaign most likely has the lower detail assets but this is a good thing because these assets are scaled to be streamed off a dvd drive. by having an hd asset pack on the other disc and requiring an install those assets are scaled to be streamed off a hdd. they've somehow brilliantly accommodated both skus simultaneously.

12xdvd ~ 8.2 - 16.5MB/s
5400RPM HDD ~ 75-80 MB/s
and if you account for seek times the gap is even larger

its so simple yet, so brilliant im impressed.

 

[Rangers]

So, to be more controversial, you should title it as "4GB 360 owners get gimped BF3!!!!" or something like that?

Wait till GAF figures this out, guarantee there will be just such a topic.

But are you really sure that's how it's going to work? I'm dubious. There's not really been any evidence through multiple generations now that a HDD can really mean superior graphics. If there was it should have been a huge edge for PS3...and we should have seen a lot of devs talking about it.

Hmm, Dice has talked a lot about streaming, though I cant find the exact comments I'm looking for...

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/02/battlefield-3-frostbite-2-engine-interview/

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/115/1152958p1.html

http://www.vg247.com/2011/03/04/battlefield-3-on-consoles-will-still-look-very-good-says-dice/

 

[(((interference)))]

Cool, that's interesting - I always wanted to see developers optimise the experience for HDD owners other than simply reduced load times and pop in.

Wonder how it will fare with the PS3 version, which will probably have a partial install (but the PS3's blu ray drive is still slower than the 360's DVD drive)

 

[Arwin]

5400RPM HDD ~ 75-80 MB/s

Ehm, I doubt the HDD is that much faster than the DVD in terms of transfer rates. I'd expect something that stays in the 20-30MB/s range at best, and wouldn't be surprised if it is more low 20s than high. If anything the difference in seektimes are likely much more dramatic.

 

[NRP]

Awesome news!

 

[kagemaru]

Are we sure "HD installation content" is what you say it is and not an option to install the second disc content to play all from disc one? I'm hoping MS has dropped their stupid policy and this is the first game to allow second disc installs.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I would doubt that installing to hard drive adds any kind of graphical upgrade. I'm guessing HD in this case means hard drive, not high definition.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I would doubt that installing to hard drive adds any kind of graphical upgrade. I'm guessing HD in this case means hard drive, not high definition.

this, but I suppose we will find out

 

[CopyCat]

I would doubt that installing to hard drive adds any kind of graphical upgrade. I'm guessing HD in this case means hard drive, not high definition.

In the eurogamer article staff writer Bertie adds:
"Just quizzed EA on the "HD installation" comment, thinking they might have meant "HDD installation".
But they didn't. It's definitely "HD installation content", as in "hi-definition"."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Are we sure "HD installation content" is what you say it is and not an option to install the second disc content to play all from disc one? I'm hoping MS has dropped their stupid policy and this is the first game to allow second disc installs.

At first I thought that, and started a post suggesting they meant HDD, but on reading the article it was apparent that they were talking about extra content. And if you think about, if the 2nd disc has the HDD install content, but the game runs on HDD-less SKUs, what can it be if not expanded resources? There cannot be anything on the install disk that'll prevent the game playing for those without an HDD.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Weird. I don't think that will go over well, unless they HD content isn't too big of an install.

 

[kagemaru]

At first I thought that, and started a post suggesting they meant HDD, but on reading the article it was apparent that they were talking about extra content. And if you think about, if the 2nd disc has the HDD install content, but the game runs on HDD-less SKUs, what can it be if not expanded resources? There cannot be anything on the install disk that'll prevent the game playing for those without an HDD.

IIRC both Bioware and MercurySteam wanted to enable an option to install the second disc to play from one disc for ME2 and C:LoS, but MS denied them both. I just thought that maybe MS finally allowed the feature. This way, people with HDD-less SKUs can still play each disc separately, while those with the HDD space can install the second disc and play everything from the first.

If you're talking about this article:

Eurogamer has discovered what is on each of the two Xbox 360 Battlefield 3 DVD discs.
"Battlefield 3 for Xbox 360 ships on two discs with endless hours of spectacular high-definition gameplay," EA told us this afternoon.
"Disc one features the stunning multiplayer, co-op levels and HD installation content.
"Disc two features the superb single-player campaign."
The PS3 version of Battlefield 3 will come on one, larger capacity, Blu-ray disc.

I'm not sure what here suggests extra content. I'm viewing the article through a cached page on Bing since it's blocked at work, so maybe there's more to it that I'm not seeing?

Is there any way they are specifically using HD as in Hard Drive since possibly the general public aren't well informed behind the term "HDD" which mean Hard Disk Drive?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm not sure what here suggests extra content.

My reasoning. I think just reading through the article, though it doesn't say any different, I spent a little longer thinking about it. If Disc 1 contains HDD installation data, streamed off HDD when playing solo, how come XB360's without the HDD can do without this data and play off the 2nd disk? If the HD installation is just solo player content, why does it need a separate disk when the solo disk can just be copied to HDD? There's no reason for a discrete HDD installation package when 360 supports full HDD installs. And the above post says confirmation has been received that they meant HD content.

 

[manux]

12xdvd ~ 8.2 - 16.5MB/s
5400RPM HDD ~ 75-80 MB/s
and if you account for seek times the gap is even larger

its so simple yet, so brilliant im impressed.

I doubt there is any truth to your deduction on XBOX360. Firstly the actual drive is slower and then you have this

ID_AA_Carmack John Carmack
The 360 cache partition performance is much worse than you would expect, due to the required filesystem overhead.

ofcourse there is the full install option which is faster but still the hdd used by xbox360 is nowhere near numbers you are quoting.

ID_AA_Carmack John Carmack
For Rage data streaming, PC HD full install > 360 HD full install > PS3 partial install > 360 HD cache > 360 DVD

 

[NRP]

Weird. I don't think that will go over well, unless they HD content isn't too big of an install.

Anyone trying to play BF3 MP without a hard drive deserves to be tea bagged.

 

[tabs]

It could be a good idea for competitive players though, wouldn't the framerate be higher? I would think there might at least be a bit less lag between input and action. Digital Foundry should have a look at that.

 

[kagemaru]

My reasoning. I think just reading through the article, though it doesn't say any different, I spent a little longer thinking about it. If Disc 1 contains HDD installation data, streamed off HDD when playing solo, how come XB360's without the HDD can do without this data and play off the 2nd disk? If the HD installation is just solo player content, why does it need a separate disk when the solo disk can just be copied to HDD? There's no reason for a discrete HDD installation package when 360 supports full HDD installs. And the above post says confirmation has been received that they meant HD content.

Yeah you could be right, we'll see.

 

[Kasersky]

I doubt there is any truth to your deduction on XBOX360. Firstly the actual drive is slower and then you have this

obviously these are maximum of the actual potential of the hardware not under regular circumstances something like that is much more difficult to find information on... anyways the whole point was to demonstrate the gap between the two. not to narrowly observe those numbers...

It could be a good idea for competitive players though, wouldn't the framerate be higher? I would think there might at least be a bit less lag between input and action. Digital Foundry should have a look at that.

hd content is on the multiplayer disc so everyone would have to play with the higher detail assets possibly.

 

[Boxercide]

According to Giant Bomb, there is an optional High Res Texture pack on both PS3 and 360 versions included.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/console-battlefield-3-to-include-optional-high-res-textures/3727/

 

[kagemaru]

Yeah looks like you guys were right. Curious to see what type of difference it makes.