Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Shortbread]

Is there a lithographic reduction available to create a superslim? Edit: Yes. PS4 Slim is on 16 nm. 7nm APU would get some saving. Not sure a super-slim is on the cards, but certainly a cost-reduced PS4 model is an option.

If there is an option on Sony producing a super-slim PS4 and gain a larger margin (more profit) on unit sales without a price-cut, you bets believe they would do so. But since we're heading into a new generation, more than likely Sony would opt for a $199 super-slim on exstending the PS4's lifecycle for another 3-4 years.

 

[MrFox]

At first I was thinking there wouldn't be a lot more ps4 to sell before ps5 canibalize it... but they expect a slow transition with much more cross gen games, so the ps4 would continue to sell for a few years with a dirt cheap superslim.

And it would be cute. A cute slim console without too many vents.

 

[Michellstar]

At first I was thinking there wouldn't be a lot more ps4 to sell before ps5 canibalize it... but they expect a slow transition with much more cross gen games

Speaking of wich, could the supossed devkit with two arms house both systems, the 5 and the 4?? To streamline the porting.

 

[anexanhume]

Is there a lithographic reduction available to create a superslim? Edit: Yes. PS4 Slim is on 16 nm. 7nm APU would get some saving. Not sure a super-slim is on the cards, but certainly a cost-reduced PS4 model is an option.

A 7nm revision with 128-bit GDDR6 bus could save on cost, size and power quite a bit.

 

[Shortbread]

Speaking of wich, could the supossed devkit with two arms house both systems, the 5 and the 4?? To streamline the porting.

The PS5 SDK hardware should be more than enough. Any PS4 porting or cross-generational titles would be handled by the SDK's APIs and solution stacks, towards provisioning anything PS4 related (e.g., PS4/Pro mode).

 

[Shortbread]

Latest rumors.

1. Digital Foundry hasn't confirmed (yet) that Lockhart has been cancelled.
2. A gaming industry veteran by the name of Kleegamefan over at Era, mentioned and reaffirmed his statement that PS5 has RT cores.
3. Something Sony related is being shown behind closed-doors (developers/press) in mid September, other than an open public showing of some new footage or gameplay from "The Last of Us 2."

Edit: Kleegamefan revised his statement to RT hardware, not specifically separate logic/cores.

 

[DieH@rd]

Is there a lithographic reduction available to create a superslim? Edit: Yes. PS4 Slim is on 16 nm. 7nm APU would get some saving. Not sure a super-slim is on the cards, but certainly a cost-reduced PS4 model is an option.

Or 7nm Pro, but base console is a better fit because it will remain in sales for longer period of time at more attractive price.

 

[Globalisateur]

Or 7nm Pro, but base console is a better fit because it will remain in sales for longer period of time at more attractive price.

Sony will continue selling Pros as long as people buy them. They did it for PS2 and they did it for PS3. We don't know how they'll price those models in 2020+ and how the market will react.

In 2020 and after, the market will be more and more a 4K+ TV market. I think the Pro could be sold longer than many people currently think. I won't be surprised if the base PS4 model is retired before the Pro, a least in western markets.

 

[iroboto]

Latest rumors.

1. Digital Foundry hasn't confirmed (yet) that Lockhart has been cancelled.
2. A gaming industry veteran by the name of Kleegamefan over at Era, mentioned and reaffirmed his statement that PS5 has RT cores.
3. Something Sony related is being shown behind closed-doors (developers/press) in mid September, other than an open public showing of some new footage or gameplay from "The Last of Us 2."

Edit: Kleegamefan revised his statement to RT hardware, not specifically separate logic/cores.

Starting to sound like RT Cores is being used as a misnomer for RT hardware. That’s 2 corrections in a short period of time.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In 2020 and after, the market will be more and more a 4K+ TV market. I think the Pro could be sold longer than many people currently think. I won't be surprised if the base PS4 model is retired before the Pro, a least in western markets.

I can't see the value in keeping a 4K version of the old console going without the cheapest possible entry-level. As the generation gets older, new hardware sells to the more price-conscious and it's lower entry-level pricing that enables that ongoing long-term growth. That means wanting a PS4SuperSlim type product, and not a PS4Pro. The only way what you suggest makes sense to me is if Sony sees an unprecedented surge in upgraders from PS4 to 4Pro instead of from PS4 to PS5, which seems incredibly implausible. PS4Pro isn't a great 4K box and PS5 will be far better suited to game on a new 4K TV. The price conscious without a current-gen console and a new budget 4K TV who want a console will still be price conscious and wanting the cheapest possible new console to play on.

 

[Globalisateur]

I can't see the value in keeping a 4K version of the old console going without the cheapest possible entry-level. As the generation gets older, new hardware sells to the more price-conscious and it's lower entry-level pricing that enables that ongoing long-term growth. That means wanting a PS4SuperSlim type product, and not a PS4Pro. The only way what you suggest makes sense to me is if Sony sees an unprecedented surge in upgraders from PS4 to 4Pro instead of from PS4 to PS5, which seems incredibly implausible. PS4Pro isn't a great 4K box and PS5 will be far better suited to game on a new 4K TV. The price conscious without a current-gen console and a new budget 4K TV who want a console will still be price conscious and wanting the cheapest possible new console to play on.

First: it is an (enough) great 4K box for most people. Most don't care about a maximum resolution theoretically reached 1% of the time, in some games when nothing is happening or when you look at the sky. That's only for the geeks like us. People who want to play Fifa, madden, NBA, Spider-man, COD or even Battlefield ? All those games look terrific, consistently, (and perform great) on a 4K TV with a Pro.

Secondly: the price. Currently there is a sale on Amazon. the Pro costs $349 while base PS4 still $299. I think this difference is what we should expect in 2020 and after. The $100 difference will transform into a $50 difference, first with the sales (like now on Amazon), then permanently. When PS5 will be at $499, the Pro could maybe be sold at $249 and PS4 at $200. Now compared to PS5 the Pro will have a great value for people wanting to play at 4K on their TVs without spending too much.

 

[MrFox]

A pro equivalent performance on 7nm, using navi, 4x zen cores, and 128bit gddr6 could be a very small die. Cerny's patents about BC profiling (matching an exact performance on different architectures) could allow this.

The more they shrink the die, the smaller the absolute BOM difference between ps4 and ps4pro. The low clocks of the original ps4 means a larger die than an equivalent modern architecture on 7nm at a much higher clock.

 

[AlNom]

On the other hand, it's practically a whole new console to R&D and produce.

/goes back into the hole.

 

[MrFox]

On the other hand, it's practically a whole new console to R&D and produce.

/goes back into the hole.

I guess it depends what would be the least costly to develop between:

1. Shrinking the ps4 to 7nm, which means making a 7nm jaguar and also shrinking that particular revision of GCN.

2. Using the same IP blocks already available on 7nm from AMD, navi and zen and gddr6. So one chip being the ps5, another the ps4pro-slim with maybe half of everything, half the die size.

The ps4 emulation on navi and zen is already necessary for ps5, so what's missing is figuring out how many zen cores and how many navi compute units can be enough to emulate the ps4 pro exactly.

(there's always choice #3, just keep selling the ps4 slim as is)

 

[BRiT]

Didn't we already have this discussion when it was MS with multiSKU for next-gen? I don't see anything unique to discuss if it's Sony doing it instead.

 

[MrFox]

Didn't we already have this discussion when it was MS with multiSKU for next-gen? I don't see anything unique to discuss if it's Sony doing it instead.

Because that's not a second sku of ps5. It's a ps4. Just a different way of doing it under the hood.

 

[Nisaaru]

2. Using the same IP blocks already available on 7nm from AMD, navi and zen and gddr6. So one chip being the ps5, another the ps4pro-slim with maybe half of everything, half the die size.

You call that a ps4 and not a second SKU?

You have some really strange views about the topic.

 

[MrFox]

You call that a ps4 and not a second SKU?

You have some really strange views about the topic.

It only plays ps4 games == it's a ps4

Seems extremely simple to understand.

 

[Xbat]

You call that a ps4 and not a second SKU?

You have some really strange views about the topic.

Wait what? A low end SKU would be a hindrance to next gen but what MrFox is suggesting is just another way to make a PS4 that can only play PS4 games.

The question is if it works out cheaper to use newer tech at 7nm or just shrink the older tech. The plus of going with newer tech is you probably can slap 4k on the marketing material on the box.

 

[mrcorbo]

A PS4Pro carried forward into next gen just seems like a neither/nor device. It is neither as cheap as a PS4 could be nor as performant as the PS5 will be when playing PS4 games. I don't see the point of it.