Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Silent_Buddha]

As I stated before, even with improved CBR methods allowing for higher framerates, most developers will use those additional resources towards more-and-more eye candy, saturating whatever headroom towards having higher framerates (e.g., 60/120fps).

Sure they are going to try for more eye candy. The thing is, it may only be possible to get "more eye candy" via temporal reconstruction/accumulation at higher framerates.

Brute forcing low framerates + high resolution is likely going to lead to a game that looks worse, albeit with less effort on the part of the developer.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shortbread]

Sure they are going to try for more eye candy. The thing is, it may only be possible to get "more eye candy" via temporal reconstruction/accumulation at higher framerates.

Brute forcing low framerates + high resolution is likely going to lead to a game that looks worse, albeit with less effort on the part of the developer.

Regards,
SB

Maybe more dynamic resolutions solutions, rather than CBR?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Maybe more dynamic resolutions solutions, rather than CBR?

CBR is a far too specific and limited term. Temporal reconstruction/accumulation/injection/whatever you want to call it encompasses so many different techniques, most of which likely won't be using a checkerboard pattern.

Dynamic resolutions is likely to be used in conjunction with whatever other technique gets used, although some developers may opt for variable frame rate instead (god, I hope not). Or perhaps a more stable reconstruction technique that relies on a set resolution. Either way, dynamic resolution is just another method available to developers.

Regards,
SB

 

[Jay]

CBR is a specific form of reconstruction using a checkerboard pattern. We have no idea what TI involves as it's never been publicly discussed. It would appear people are using 'CBR' to mean 'reconstruction' because the industry hasn't provided a generic term for this new technique; to the point we have nonsensical naming like nV calling their reconstruction an AA method.

And this is my point really, people attribute the CBR artifacts to any any kind of non native rendering.
CBR has a specific kind of look when it starts to break down.
I do wonder if that's the main issue some have and therefore don't like the idea of TI in general, when it's the specific implementation of CBR.
And on the other side, some people say look at this really good example and it doesn't seem to be CBR but another form of TI.

Natve is really going to be used by studios that don't have the capacity/ability to do a form of "smart rendering". Leaving too much performance on the table for slight hit on IQ, when it works well. And it will only improve.

 

[MrFox]

Wooh boy. Credited designer is the PS4 designer.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1163816445894991872

https://twitter.com/x/status/1163829286459125763

The only way I can see this making sense is if the top V is the intake, I suppose it would be made that way to have enough surface area for a filter.

Because otherwise, if the V is the outlet, it's not stackable. Not safely for the top device anyway.

(or otherwise my best theory: this is fake)

 

[anexanhume]

The only way I can see this making sense is if the top V is the intake, I suppose it would be made that way to have enough surface area for a filter.

Because otherwise, if the V is the outlet, it's not stackable. Not safely for the top device anyway.

(or otherwise my best theory: this is fake)

Why can the channel be ingress but not egress?

It’s not fake. It’s an actual SIE patent.

 

[MrFox]

Why can the channel be ingress but not egress?

It’s not fake. It’s an actual SIE patent.

Aw crap, I was hoping this was fake, because it's messing with my mind, I have no idea where they could put the fans

Well it could be an outlet, but having this as a stackable design means the heat would burn whatever is put on top, unless whatever is on top was designed to be isolated in that area. Or unless it's not allowed to be stacked.

 

[anexanhume]

Aw crap, I was hoping this was fake, because it's messing with my mind, I have no idea where they could put the fans

Well it could be an outlet, but having this as a stackable design means the heat would burn whatever is put on top, unless whatever is on top was designed to be isolated in that area. Or unless it's not allowed to be stacked.

I agree that it is likely for intake because the front face is usually unobstructed, even when placed in a rack.

 

[Barrabas]

Maybe Sony repeats the unveiling month for PS5 as they did with PS4
https://www.gamesradar.com/new-leak...alongside-news-of-ghost-of-tsushima-and-more/
I still have hope for something around the 25th anniversary for Playstation 1 in December.

 

[Shortbread]

Aw crap, I was hoping this was fake, because it's messing with my mind, I have no idea where they could put the fans

Well it could be an outlet, but having this as a stackable design means the heat would burn whatever is put on top, unless whatever is on top was designed to be isolated in that area. Or unless it's not allowed to be stacked.

Oddly enough, how that damn thing is shaped, I could picture a discrete socket setup for the CPU/GPU. The only reason that I say this; is that the look of the design has a chambering design on cooling two major components separately. Actually some projectors have this design, where the bulb housing/unit is cooled in one section and the circuitry / video processing chips are cooled in another. Just an observation...

 

[Scott_Arm]

Sure they are going to try for more eye candy. The thing is, it may only be possible to get "more eye candy" via temporal reconstruction/accumulation at higher framerates.

Brute forcing low framerates + high resolution is likely going to lead to a game that looks worse, albeit with less effort on the part of the developer.

Regards,
SB

Not to mention that the image blurs much much worse when the camera pans at 30Hz vs 60Hz. It's just the reality that display persistence is twice as bad for the same motion. 30Hz is going to destroy whatever you think of as the effective resolution when the camera is moving. 60Hz is a big improvement, but even it is not particularly good. 120Hz with black frame insertion or a flickering back light is where you start to approach really good motion quality. I understand it's hard for some people to compare without having seen it, but it's a real thing. This gen if you had a One X or a Pro, you could try the 60Hz modes, but they were usually much more compromised because they'd drop below 60fps, or they'd have dynamic resolution that could even drop below 1080p. I think the advantages of native 4k and reconstructed/upscaled 4k from 1440p will be a much smaller compromise and the advantages of stable 60Hz will become more apparent.

I'm happy that the new consoles will be capable of 60Hz because they're less likely to be cpu limited than past gens. They should make games like fortnite, overwatch, call of duty available at 120Hz. I have no reason to believe they wouldn't be capable with lowered graphics settings and dynamic resolution, temporal super-sampling etc. It seems like the gpu will probably be around 10 TFlops. It's an appreciable jump, but I think the CPU increase is going to be much more massive, based on all of the rumours, so we won't see the CPU-limited scenarios of the current gen as often.

For a good explanation of why frame rate, refresh rate are an image quality issue, people should spend some time reading on https://www.blurbusters.com

 

[Globalisateur]

I'd say there no space for a HDD in that dev-kit...

The V shape (which is an air intake) is there because devs often stack their dev-kits and to allow for sufficient air intake even when devs will inevitably stack plenty of strange things on that poor dev-kit...

 

[cheapchips]

The V is there because it's a 5!

I really hope that the final PS5 also looks like a 90's fan drawing of what a game console should be.

 

[MrFox]

I'd say there no space for a HDD in that dev-kit...

The V shape (which is an intake) is there because devs often stack their dev-kits and to allow for sufficient air intake even when devs will inevitably stack plenty of strange things on that poor dev-kit...

Nvme takes no space at all though.

 

[Globalisateur]

Nvme takes no space at all though.

Precisely, storage is most likely going to be soldered to the board.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The V intake provides a wider area than you'd get from just the front of the machine. It's actually a lot of air being exposed. But then you'd need two fans, one each side, to make use of it. The path of the airflow doesn't make any obvious sense with such a design. Air in the middle, spread out over two sides. We appear to have exhaust on the sides and out the back on the sides, suggesting to me air flow in and out sideways and down the back channels, where those bizarre fins are. Maybe blower fans are the front of the V arms blowing backwards along the board? But why two halves?!

 

[AlNom]

Maybe a fan is meant to slide into the V-space and two become one.

 

[Globalisateur]

There is one fan for each gigahertz.

 

[Shortbread]

Wooh boy. Credited designer is the PS4 designer.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1163816445894991872

That should be Yasuhiro, not Yusuhiro. Anyhow, hopefully we can get something similar to Yasuhiro's teardown of PS4, with PS5.

 

[MrFox]

It has three feet on one side to put it vertical on a desk.

It also have three feet aligned with little rectangular sockets to stack multiple devkits on top of each others. It's definitely designed to be stacked.

Another reason the V cannot be the outlet is because in a stack it would blow hot air towards the unsuspecting developer. Potentially triggering anger issues.

The motherboard is towards the middle, so it's hugging the bottom plastic in the middle of the V.

Here's a few theories for the airflow...

The rounded side vents are angled towards the back at a shallow angle, and the back ones are straight out. The straight back outlets are typical for getting the heat out. The side ones would be for convection of residual heat accumulating in the case, whatever the orientation.

SoC straight in the middle, with heat pipes connecting two heatsinks sections side by side, or a single wide one, Each halves having a fan blowing towards the back, towards the corners and a bit going out the side vents.

The inlet from the V would be ducted to the inlets of the fans, which would be somewhere towards the front of the case on each side. With two blowers, the cavity would be the top part of the case, so the V would be at the right place.

My second theory, however, is that the vents are cosmetic. Yeah. Those who said the ps4 black box was plain, boring, and that the previous playstations were more original... You now have to take full responsibility for it. They "listened"

Seriously I'm hoping for counter-rotating blowers side by side, because a lot of fun stuff happens when combining them together like this. It's twice the cost though, so maybe not a good idea for a console.