Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by BRiT, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. snarfbot

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    Better assets anyway since they wont be constrained by the limits of slow storage.
     
  2. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Since this is the Baseless thread and not the Bass-less thread, I approve of this analogy.
     
  3. Silent_Buddha

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    Just as long as it's not the Orangpelupa (cat) Next Gen Tech Thread.

    The console may work, but it probably won't work.

    The console might not overheat and die, but it probably will overheat and die.

    The console might not need to be repaired, but it probably will need to be repaired.

    The console might not crash, but it probably will crash.

    The console might have a working GPU, but it probably won't work right.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  4. Barrabas

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    As long as the next gen consoles are inside the box, they can either be above 10 TF or below 10 TF. We won't know for shure before we observe them....
     
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  5. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    So they can't be 10 TF?
     
  6. Barrabas

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    I think its very unlikely for them to hit exactly 10 TF, then they must be specifically tuned for that, I guess you are pushing me out on the edge here, hehe.
     
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  7. goonergaz

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    I guess I just read render as the time it takes to - you know - render something on screen...which will be quicker because of SSD loading the assets quicker...I mean, loading the assets is one part of the render process isn’t it?

    I kind of think it’s being overly pedantic...but that’s just me.
     
  8. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    And if the assets were already in ram, would that make the GPU render any faster?
     
  9. goonergaz

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    He doesn’t say GPU he says ‘the graphics rendering speed’ which (to me anyway) loading the asset is part of that process...so to turn your comment around, if the GPU was waiting for the asset wouldn’t it take longer to render?
     
  10. Shifty Geezer

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    No. Loading assets and rendering are two separate activities. Rendering is the process of taking the asset data from RAM, or procedurally creating that data, and drawing it on screen.

    It's just promo spiel for investors. There's no point trying to justify it or interpret it. ;)
     
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  11. milk

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    Back on the car analogy, that's like saying your car is faster than your neighbor's because you get to work earlier by waking up and leaving home an hour sooner.
     
  12. temesgen

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    It's a well known truth fact that Sammy Hagar can't drive GDDR5....

    14TF hardware practically confirmed
     
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  13. goonergaz

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    Thanks
     
  14. Shortbread

    Shortbread Island Hopper
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    Latest Sony PlayStation 5 Rumored Specs Boast Powerful AMD Radeon Navi And Ryzen Tech, 2TB SSD


    [​IMG]

    Seriously, I don't think a dual GPU chiplet design isn't happening for a whole host of reasons. The novelty of Sony or Microsoft doing such a design, would make for more interesting board conversation though. Any new thoughts on a dual GPU chiplet design @iroboto?
     
    #734 Shortbread, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  15. Pinstripe

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    300W power draw right off the bat for the GPUs alone. I don't think so.
     
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  16. Shortbread

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    Of course.

    But if Sony and Microsoft opted for bigger box designs, inclusive of greater PSU delivery (wattage) and beefier cooling solutions, would console gamers be upset at such a design?

    Honestly, I never understood why some console gamers want such cramped system designs that could limit the hardware's full potential. Or is it purely a business decision towards maximizing profits with smaller and smaller designs (shrinks) that requires less material on manufacturing?

    Yeah, I know I answered my own question with the last part, but I find it quite odd some console gamers want even more smaller game systems, leaving very little headroom on overcoming heat dissipation issues, and systems using less power (wattage) because their energy bills are to high. :rolleyes:
     
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  17. Shifty Geezer

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    What's the rumoured price/loss on that rumoured design?
     
  18. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    nothing more than we've already commented on.
    Just seems more expensive lol and it opens up a whole slew of other issues like additional latency etc.
    But i suppose if you wanted to get there that would be one way.

    Power consumption is definitely a big deal, you don't want consumers to fork over 499+ and their hardware starts melting because of insufficient cooling in their media cabinets or something like that. I'm pretty sure nothing is more devastating to the bottom line than to have to pony up 1 billion in replacements. I think lessons are learned here from both MS and Sony.

    I'm still on team low, so looking at 2070 performance is where I think I see it being reasonable in both tdp, price and performance.

    edit: just thinking about price
    margins IIRC from my friend who owned a computer parts shop were about 10% or less on
    CPU, Mobo, GPU, hard drives, etc.

    Cables and accessories had higher margins etc.

    So if you managed to remove the retailer margins and cut back even further (say another 15-20%) for manufacturer margins (Sony and MS selling at cost) it's still, the total package here is quite high.
    edit (2) for dual GPU setup
    Retail pricing:
    GPU : $799 (5700XT) x 2 (16GB GDDR6)
    CPU: 349 (Ryzen 3000)
    Memory: $75 (16 GB) removed
    Mobo: $75
    PSU: $40
    Case + Others: $40
    SSD: $150 (increased)
    sub total = $1453 from newegg.

    If we attempt to remove retail margins and some manufacturer margin for buying in bulk then:
    1 GPU | 2 GPU
    - 30% = $775 | $1017
    - 40% = $664 | $871.8
    - 50% = $554 | $726
    - 60% = $443 | $581

    So ^^ yea. I don't think we have 40-50% margin to play with at the manufacturer level. AMD knows and their suppliers know combined MS and Sony will sell close to 200M units in a generation. They will fight for each percentage point they can on margin.

    edit 3: With an average reported attach rate of 9.6 games per PS4 console and with 30% margin off each title. Then you're looking at
    59.99 * 0.3 * 9.6 = $172

    With Sony the absolute maximum subsidy would be $172 dollars per console, and they'd only profit off PS+, DLC, and any other subscription services they have. For obvious reasons you should not add subscriptions into the subsidy because they were going to get those subscriptions anyway whether you were 1 GPU or 2 GPU.

    This is insanely risky. Given the price points above. I just can't see 2x GPUS happening unless you are getting hardware for about 50-60% off and then there is additional subsidy involved of up to $182 -> $82 just to meet a price point of $399 -> $499.
     
    #738 iroboto, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  19. BRiT

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    That Team Low sure seems to align with Team Reality, at least for now.
     
  20. Pinstripe

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    Yeah I think a GTX1080/RTX2070 base line should be technically feasible, and still a major upgrade over Xbox One's HD 7790 base line performance.
     
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