Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by BRiT, Jun 9, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
    Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Messages:
    12,415
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    No one was saying that last gen either
     
  2. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,035
    Likes Received:
    5,576
    Except for the part where he shoots down the massive 30% performance difference that the Phil Spencer statements and the Github Gospel suggest?

    So either:
    1 - Github Gospel doesn't tell the whole story of PS5's final specs (more ALUs per CU/WGP? more than 18 WGP enabled in the final version? higher clocks?)
    2 - Phil Spencer didn't actually mean the SeriesX has 12 TFLOPs RDNA, and it's much closer to 9.2 TFLOPs than it is to 12.
    3 - Combination of the above.
     
  3. ultragpu

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    2,263
    Location:
    Australia
    Somebody leaked me the TFs today and I have very strong reason to believe this individual.
    PS5 target specs: 13 TF in Navi architecture (most recent devkit is reaching 12.6 TF but Sony is aiming to pump it even higher)
    Xbox Series X target specs: 12 TF also Navi (the latest devkit is hitting 12.1 TF and MS still has room to wiggle further)
    The person gave me a cookie afterwards and told me everything is gonna be just fine.
    Source
    [​IMG]
     
    JPT and Picao84 like this.
  4. Picao84

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    900
    I just did explain above with it being attached to a subscription to the Game Pass / Project X Cloud.

    The rumour was always that it was a hybrid. If you think that does not make sense, welcome to the club :lol: This whole thread was started because of me trying to make sense of Lockhart in the first place.
     
    #5944 Picao84, Jan 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  5. N2O

    N2O
    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    183
    Daily "PS5 is slight more powerful than XSX leak", version 21.
     
  6. Picao84

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,838
    Likes Received:
    900
    I don't think he ever shoots 30% in raw TFlops down. He talks about balance, so it might have those extra, but memory and other stuff does not help it make use of it.
     
  7. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,035
    Likes Received:
    5,576
    I think that's what he does when he says one console runs the game at 60FPS and the other also runs it at the same framerate.

    It's the exact same narrative we've been hearing from all the trusted insiders, from forum users that have been vetted by mod teams to renowned journalists, and it's one that is completely incompatible with SeriesX = PS5×1.3.


    There's nothing else to be extra, at least not if the SeriesX is 320bit and the PS5 is 256bit. Unless all of a sudden those games are all fillrate limited which I find very hard to believe.
     
  8. ThePissartist

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    507
    There's a conflict in the data between GitHub and the Sony presentations - Github suggests that there is no ray tracing, surely that's enough to give everyone pause?

    Nobody should conclude anything based on limited data. I can only think of three possibilities:

    1. GitHub did not have the complete final chip
    2. RT will be performed on a separate chip
    3. Part of the chip was inactivated due to backward compatibility testing
     
    ToTTenTranz likes this.
  9. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    15,571
    Likes Received:
    14,157
    Location:
    Cleveland
    No, GitHub suggest it was focused on BC testing, since PS4 doesnt have RT no need to test it for BC.
     
    Michellstar and Silenti like this.
  10. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,035
    Likes Received:
    5,576
    It should be, but for many here it isn't.

    The Github Gospel doesn't test raytracing. Sony have very officially confirmed that raytracing is in the GPU hardware. Therefore the Github Gospel did not test the whole chip.
    Yet because there's one description in an excel sheet saying "18 WGP = full chip" then apparently there can't be anything else in it.


    I think the Gospel is testing only BC (9 WGP 800MHz / 19 WGP 911MHz) and BC Boost (18 WGP 2GHz) modes, and it's obviously only activating the minimum amount of functional units that will be used in these BC modes, regardless of it having one excel field within thousands saying 18 WGP is full chip.
     
    ThePissartist likes this.
  11. ThePissartist

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    507
    So option 3, part of the chip is inactivated.
     
  12. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    15,571
    Likes Received:
    14,157
    Location:
    Cleveland
    I would not say inactivated. To me that sounds more like being disabled. It just wasn't used.
     
  13. ThePissartist

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    507
    Considering the RT part wasn't being used, then it's not too far-fetched to assume that other parts were also unused.

    I honestly don't care too much either way, I'll buy the more powerful console.

    It's just there's a huge hole in the data that many seem to be ignoring.
     
    goonergaz, iroboto and ToTTenTranz like this.
  14. Mskx

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    163
    I don't think anyone is basing anything JUST on what Phil said because it is so intentionally vague.

    HOWEVER... It does line up with what Windows Central has reported and Richard Leadbetter indicated in a video that they have the same info and i think Tom Warren also said it was 12TF on twitter.
    All quite respected people.
     
    AzBat likes this.
  15. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    15,571
    Likes Received:
    14,157
    Location:
    Cleveland
    The only credible data is from GitHub. The rest is from pretenders. It's not ignoring what they say, but giving it appropriate weight that anything without backing evidence deserves. I dont think github gives the entire picture just like I dont believe anything the pretenders say is true.
     
    goonergaz, Proelite, McHuj and 4 others like this.
  16. N2O

    N2O
    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    183
    These daily next-gen rumors sure is starting getting worse than football translate rumors.
     
  17. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,477
    Likes Received:
    10,164
    Location:
    The North
    Whoa dude! Welcome back
     
    ThePissartist likes this.
  18. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,477
    Likes Received:
    10,164
    Location:
    The North
    Or that test wasn’t run.
    And the native test wasn’t native.

    which is what I’m leaning on.
     
  19. upnorthsox

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,102
    Likes Received:
    378
    Well except for the ones telling Sony that they had better double their ram or they were toast, but yeah they were instead just quietly gimping XBOne games and hoping no one would notice. We wont even go into the previous generation where the howling became so insufferable that each week was a question of what dev was going to break out into a crying rant. Come to think of it, although PS2 would eventually become the base dev platform of that gen, it sure didn't get there quietly. Nintendo of course has been assailed with impunity thru this all, justified or not. In fact, I think they're just happy to be dev ignored now. I think what the platform holders have gotten real good at is holding devs to their NDAs, we'll see if that lasts thru GDC which is always a hard time to keep things secret (as it's purposed is to bring people together to share secrets). If Sony hasn't revealed by then, watch out as they will have lost the narrative and anything is possible especially griping.
     
    egoless and goonergaz like this.
  20. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,525
    Likes Received:
    15,980
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    But not necessarily at the same resolution. He did not state both consoles run the game the same; he said they'd run the games such that its not obvious which is more powerful. He also said to ignore the TF numbers as that doesn't really relate to what we see/experience. What he didn't say is that both consoles are basically the same, which would be a far more straight-forward post than saying, "TFs don't matter, a machine can be more efficient with less TFs, you can't really tell the difference anyway." If they were the same. If they aren't the same, but the end results aren't fairly indistinguishable, you'd expect the statement to be something like, "Yes, one will be faster than another (but you will not notice it in practice)."

    Contrast, "I can tell you the machines are very close, pretty much identical in power," with "one is less powerful in TF count but in real terms, you won't even see the difference so shouldn't worry about the numbers and choose your platform based on what games you want to play or which box is cheaper or on any other than TF number."
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...