Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[HBRU]

As many game on PC are optimized for Nvidia and beeing Navi more close to Nvidia, ps5 games will have maybe sense (in performance terms) to be ported from PC games instead of making ps5 BC with ps4 games... Commercially is of course the opposite. Same story for Jaguars vs Zen2.... I understand people that hate BC....

 

[hughJ]

The SSDs on consoles should be way more than your 500 MB/s, and using at least 2-lane PCI-Express NVMEs which provides 4 GB/s bandwidth. My guess is both use 4-lane PCI-Express 4 with NVME, which provides 8 GB/s bandwidth.

I'm assuming they're going to be using QLC NAND for their SSD in order to achieve the capacity and cost that makes it viable, so that PCIE4 bus is only going to get leveraged by whatever DRAM and/or SLC cache the SSD has. Affordable QLC NAND flash isn't terribly fast. If I had to guess, all the hubbub of super fast data streaming in the Wired article is not due to across-the-board speed of the SSD's NAND, but rather a combination of having a much larger pool of system RAM and cleverly shuffling data between the ssd, ssd's cache, and system memory. IMO this idea of the next-gen consoles' SSD being almost akin to a giant pool of memory constrained only by the PCIE4 bus speed is going to lead to a lot of disappointment.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What dollar values are you think of for 'affordable'? Given the SSD performance is going to define the entire generation and going slow at launch means staying slow for 6 years even though flash is going to get faster and faster and cheaper and cheaper, and given that prices are going to get cheaper and cheaper rapidly through the console life-cycle, there's a very good case for going large and lossy at launch (late 2020) knowing within a year that SSD will be break-even price.

So how expensive is too expensive to justify 100% fast flash?

 

[borntosoul]

With B/C support both parties opened the doors for a higher spec machine at launch.

 

[goonergaz]

What dollar values are you think of for 'affordable'? Given the SSD performance is going to define the entire generation and going slow at launch means staying slow for 6 years even though flash is going to get faster and faster and cheaper and cheaper, and given that prices are going to get cheaper and cheaper rapidly through the console life-cycle, there's a very good case for going large and lossy at launch (late 2020) knowing within a year that SSD will be break-even price.

So how expensive is too expensive to justify 100% fast flash?

Similar ‘educated gamble’ to Sony with the 8GB faster RAM on PS4.

 

[hughJ]

100% fast flash?

What is 100% fast flash?

SLC, MLC, TLC, QLC, etc is a continuum where you're storing more bits to a single cell, in order to improve data density per dollar, albeit at the cost of performance and longevity. That's the difference between a $400 1TB SSD and a $100 1TB SSD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What is 100% fast flash?

Whatever you're using as the threshold between all one type of NAND, versus only a small pool of that type of that NAND and the rest something slower. What's the dollar value from the BOM you're budgeting for these SSDs?

eg. If $200, will $400 of QLC now be $200 by the time these consoles launch? Will it drop to $100 in 2021? If so, as a short term loss leader to ensure super fast speeds for the whole life of the platform, it makes sense.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Gonzalo 3DMark score according to Apisak.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1143418629666430976

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

So what we have to do now is :

1) Wait for Zen2 3700 and Navi 5700
2) Set clocks to 3.2GHZ / 1.8GHZ
3) Get overall system score

 

[thuway]

I wonder if Andrew Reiner and Colin are correct with PS5 being more powerful.

If anaconda is 380mm roughly with 560 GB /s memory that should atleast get to 10.5 Navi tflops or nearly 14 Vega Tflops.

Something must be happening on Sony's ssd front because even if the rumors are true of Microsoft sending out documentation of conservative Xbox Scarlett specs, there has to be something to trigger developers chattering that PS5 is more powerful.

 

[thuway]

Where are people deriving the size of Gonzalo to be 310 mm?

 

[Proelite]

Gonzalo 3DMark score according to Apisak.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1143418629666430976

Hmm gives more clout to VFX_Veterans PS5 (9TF) is around GTX 1080 in power comment.

 

[Ike Turner]

Hmm gives more clout to VFX_Veterans PS5 (9TF) is around GTX 1080 in power comment.

You do realize that "VFX_Veteran" was our local MS/Xbox fanb...before fully committing & graduating to GAF/Era greatness ?

EVERYBODY IS MAKING SHIT UP FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Where are people deriving the size of Gonzalo to be 310 mm?

There was only PCB leak in May describing entire motheboard for alleged PS5 dev kit, with die size of ~22.4 x 14.1, so probably 316 - 320mm².

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bqy778

 

[Proelite]

You do realize that "VFX_Veteran" was our local MS/Xbox fanb...before fully committing & graduating to GAF/Era greatness ?

EVERYBODY IS MAKING SHIT UP FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!

He said PS5 = 9 teraflops = around GTX 1080 in power before the Navi reveal. He was harped on in Era because people thought you needed at least 12 AMD teraflops to equal the GTX 1080.

Might be a coincidence but it lines up with all the Gonzalo and Navi 10 Lite stuff.
40CU at 1.8ghz = 9.2 TF

With HW RT I expect the PS5 to be on par with RTX 2070.

 

[thuway]

He said PS5 = 9 teraflops = around GTX 1080 in power before the Navi reveal. He was harped on in Era because people thought you needed at least 12 AMD teraflops to equal the GTX 1080.

Might be a coincidence but it lines up with all the Gonzalo and Navi 10 Lite stuff.

40CU at 1.8ghz = 9.2 TF

So you think PS5 will be 40 cu at 9.2 tf and Scarlett at 60 cu at 10 to 11 tf?

 

[Proelite]

So you think PS5 will be 40 cu at 9.2 tf and Scarlett at 60 cu at 10 to 11 tf?

I think Gonzalo is definitely 8-9 TF. IDK if that's PS5 for sure.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

I personally think 40CUs at 1800MHZ is too much in terms of TDP. I think 36CUs at 1800MHZ boost would be ~8.3TF and given that Navi XT allegedly beats 2070 by few %, end 2070 outperforms GTX1080 by 15-20%, that would be better fit for rumor.

Any way I think 40CUs at those clocks is too much. 36CUs would also tie up better with ~320mm² die size, especially considering RT hardware will have to be included.

 

[Ike Turner]

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Why are you in here then? This is thread named b"NG rumors with no tech merrits". We are disscusing exactly that. Should we only discuss specs the moment they are officially revealed?