We've been through this conversation before. XBone's image and value proposition had a LOT more problems than the preformance diferential, and most believe power had very little to do with it's sales.
Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]
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We've been through this conversation before. XBone's image and value proposition had a LOT more problems than the preformance diferential, and most believe power had very little to do with it's sales.
Depends. What is the identity of the console? The cheap one or the great performance at a good price? The XBOX One was having better bundles and a lower price for quite some time but didnt manage to sell more. I believe Sony was nailing it with superb performance at a great price at launch. That was the sales booster. The cheap price was the boost for the following years but after they achieved the foubdation with price/performance
There was way more than one reason behind XB1's lack of success. Had it been the same power as PS4, but still more expensive and with a mandatory Kinect no-one wanted and with the screwed up TVTVTV messaging, it'd have still struggled.
I'm not saying performance deficit isn't a disadvantage, but it's a disadvantage. It's not the end of the world and it's not a PR nightmare that'll kill the platform. If it was, every company would fight tooth-and-nail for more power. Like every product under the sun, you don't have to be 'the best' in order to command the market lead. Being the best helps, but if you can leverage other desirable qualities and gain critical popularity, you can leave better competitors in the dust wondering where they went wrong.
If Sony can produce an affordable PS5 with games that look notably better than PS4, they'll be just fine with their marketing.
Says who? Why? How many dollars will be lost by being 9.2 TF s instead of 10? What proportion of people who would buy a 10 TF PS5 won't if it doesn't reach a double digit figure they'll occasionally hear about?
The more I think about it, the more I am persuaded that Sony won't release a machine with a 7nm DUV APU clocked at 2ghz. It's so much unlike Cerny's philosophy.
They will need to make maybe like 10 or 20 million of those APUs (+ cooling) using that node. It's OK to make a thousand of devkits using those clocks + thermals + expensive cooling + big box but it's another story to make 15 million of those.
Just nope. They are either going to downclock it at 8tflops or PS5 is going to have another APU.
They will need to make maybe like 10 or 20 million of those APUs (+ cooling) using that node. It's OK to make a thousand of devkits using those clocks + thermals + expensive cooling + big box but it's another story to make 15 million of those.
Just nope. They are either going to downclock it at 8tflops or PS5 is going to have another APU.
Surely the anguish of dozens of forum warriors is enough reason for Sony to step up.
Lockhart may be trying to undercut then with the hope Anaconda out performs it, however an even lower spec machine may reassure buyers about PS5 performance and give them more space. They get the same advantages as Microsoft. They are more powerful that Lockhart, they are most likely cheaper than Anaconda.
Being the best of both is a fairly easy sell for mass market.
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Can someone chim in and let me know what is this Cerny philosohy. PS4 and PS4Pro were simple and smart in its design, maximizing performance/price ratio and brining some interesting features (CBR, FP16, more ACE).
But in general, they were "supercharged PCs", just like what leaked PS5 looks like (+3D audio, inhouse SSD IO solution etc).
Fact is, we dont know how will 2020 Navi GPUs clock at improved 7nm process. We also dont know if they will go slightly above most efficient frequency to chase a bit more power or not, but I think they will want to maximize silicon as much as they can.
Scorpio had 4CU+ and 261MHz+ clocks on Pro, as well as 4GB more RAM and higher CPU clocks, yet it barely went higher on peak wattage (~15W?).
They can do alot of low level stuff on silicon and on improved node (N7P), that automatically gives 10% less TDP for same clocks, which maybe could not be done on PC parts that came 1.5yrs before it.
For me, rumored PS5 specs are peak Cerny lol
Question.
If PS5 was navi 9.2TF and XSX was Polaris 10TF would PS5 loose due to the PR nightmare that is being attributed to not being double digits?
Most people both gamers and media don't care or even know what a TFlop is.
Even after the initial sales pitch by MS for the 1X how many people (including game journalists) do you think actually knows what the TFlops of the consoles are?
Who ever has the higher performing console will tout it, same way the other will tout some other aspect.
Sony will tout their 1P
MS will tout gamespass
So on and so forth.
PR nightmare would be much lower power and cost more (nightmare, far from terminal if you have the games etc)
If PS5 was navi 9.2TF and XSX was Polaris 10TF would PS5 loose due to the PR nightmare that is being attributed to not being double digits?
Most people both gamers and media don't care or even know what a TFlop is.
Even after the initial sales pitch by MS for the 1X how many people (including game journalists) do you think actually knows what the TFlops of the consoles are?
Who ever has the higher performing console will tout it, same way the other will tout some other aspect.
Sony will tout their 1P
MS will tout gamespass
So on and so forth.
PR nightmare would be much lower power and cost more (nightmare, far from terminal if you have the games etc)
Wide and slow for his 3 known designs using a rather conservative sweetspot for the clocks of both CPUs and GPUs. Peak wattage of XBX is actually 25W but they used a more power efficient PSU for that otherwise it could have being something like 35-40W.
Yeah I'm not touching a 9.2 TF PS5 be it RDNA or not, especially if the competition has a 12 TF RDNA on offer. Yes I'm willing to pay the extra dollar for more value. There's always the option of waiting 3 years for a Pro when more exclusives become readily available. That said the jury is still out for a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken x 20 PS5 at 13 TF if Klee, BlackOsiris and Matt are to be trusted 
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So instead you'd rather stick with a 4Pro playing the games instead of having an amazingly better quality of life experience with a PS5?
This sort of thinking makes no sense to me. Instead of comparing consoles between the camps, one should compare the new console with their current console and what quality of life improvements it brings. I guess if you have both consoles now, then having a choice of which one to upgrade first makes sense.
Boost clocks are not boost clocks when it's 100% of the time when the game is running. It's also an incredibly bad experience to rely on thermal throttling as that means the experience is not guaranteed, and in worst case situations it means you have no boost so the game runs worse.
Historically, Sony and Microsoft has not reserved any specific number of GPU CUs for OS/Dashboard use. Instead they time-slice the GPU, generally 2% to 3%. They both mostly reserved 1.5 Jaguar CPU cores. Details here: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...-4pro-xbox-one-one-s-and-one-x-2019-12.61513/
36CUs makes hardware BC with Pro trivial.
Cerny put 64 ROPS in the pro when there isn't enough bandwidth for 32, just so they can get BC working via butterfly. It's not a stretch of the imagination to say that they might be hindered by BC for the PS5 design. At the very least they could have done 22WGP, with 20 enabled like the 5700 XT. Just my analysis.
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