Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[milk]

But if people are willing to believe Sony or Microsoft have not completed their SoC/APU designs (I'm not talking about manufacturing or tapped) to be ready by November of next year, then they are kidding themselves. Unless fanboys are under the impression that Sony and Microsoft are battling each other with designs every minute, each hour, each day, each week, and each month with upping each other in designs because internet console warriors are upset with reported rumors... then we have truly entered looney town. By that perspective, all the rumored/possible chips for PS5 and XB-Next are null and void if Sony/MS are flying by the seat of their pants on pleasing their delusional warrior bases.

Well, it is a known fact Cerny himself was invading the production facilities at night where the first batch of PS4s were being manufactured, and placing 2 extra GB of memory in every unit, by hand. Unfortunately he got caught before he could finish adding it to all consoles because Phil Spencer was stalking him and told the police.

 

[borntosoul]

PS1 was 599 DM back in 1995 in Germany. With inflation that's gonna be €433 in 2020. €600 to €433 is a pretty massive difference.

US inflation has been higher, so that $300 PS1 would cost you $504 now. Arguably closer, but still quite a ways off. Also (and I'm not sure about that), the PS1 didn't really take off in a massive way until CD burners became widespread and cheap, did it?

What did you base your inflation figures on?
Because from where I sit that’s not accurate.
In $1995 you could buy a house here in Australia for $60,000 ave. . Now to buy the same house it will cost you $600,000.
So since a house is most peoples single largest purchase I’d say those inflation figures are wrong by a long way.
Fuel was way cheaper then too, by a long way. And the list goes on and on.

Edit. For computers it was way worse.....you know What most PCs cost back then....a fortune...try $4000. In $1995 money give or take.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Inflation is measured and reported, averaged over general purchasing for the entire nation. House prices don't change relative to inflation. Heck they can change massively by region within a nation, so where house prices can go up some places, they can plummet in others. Inflation itself is localised too based on local economy.

Use official inflation adjusted figures. eg. http://www.in2013dollars.com/

 

[borntosoul]

Thanks for the link but those figures mean nothing to me, no offence. To me inflation is what l could buy in 1995 vs today. There is no way in hell $300 $1995 = $500 in today money.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

I am almost 100% this person has leaked PS5 devkit PCB on 20th of May (now deleted his account). He also mentioned May 21st being "a cake day" but day this was posted was 20th of May GMT, so he was more then likely from Asia region.

In any case, we got similar leaks last time around from most obscure sources which turned out true (pastebin 2011 Dec, sweetvar26 on GAF and his friend who works at AMD etc).

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/bqy778

This would point to :

-316mm2 die
-Probably 40CU @1.8GHz with 4 disabled(Gonzalo leak in April?)
-256 bit bus width and 18Gbps SAMSUNG GDDR6 chips - 32GB in DK, 16GB in console @ 576GB/s
-Additional 4GB DDR4 for OS

So - Zen2, Navi 8.3TF + HW RT and 20GB of RAM (16GB GDDR6 for games). 1TB NAND.

Many would think this would be $400 console, but at 7nm (more expensive node mm² v mm² compared to 16nm) + 16GB GDDR6 (only 8GB GDDR5 in Pro) + SSD (not found in Pro) + UHD drive (not found in Pro) it would definitely be at very least $450 at a loss, or most likely $500.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks for the link but those figures mean nothing to me, no offence. To me inflation is what l could buy in 1995 vs today.

The world doesn't work according to what 'works' for individuals though. Inflation is what it is. If you want to talk about something else, you'll need to give it a different name, but as there's no actual metric by which any such considerations can be made, it makes all such discussion arbitrary. Which is why inflation figures were coined in the first place...

 

[HBRU]

-Probably 40CU @1.8GHz with 4 disabled(Gonzalo leak in April?)......... Zen2, Navi 8.3TF

36CUs@1822 mhz=8.4 TF.. Practically a boring PS4-PRO2....

So maybe ps4 is gonna be discontinued and only Ps4-pro-slim & Ps5 sold....

Or maybe -even better- a ps5@911 mhz GPU (cheap and
similar to ps4-pro) and and expensive ps5@1822 mhz

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

36CUs@1822 mhz=8.4 TF.. Practically a boring PS4-PRO2....

Well yea, but 8.4TF is right around 11TF worth of GCN flops. Seriously, this is really good. This is the reason why Sony and MS are not talking TFs but SSDs, Zen2 and RT.

 

[HBRU]

Ok got it... But also BC will work in such easy way... They can also pick up better and worst chip and sell a 8 giga RAM really cheap console that practically works like a todays ps4-pro and another 16 giga RAM expensive....

 

[London Geezer]

This TFlop lottery is really going to make this next year or so very long and very pedantic.

 

[milk]

So maybe ps4 is gonna be discontinued and only Ps4-pro-slim & Ps5 sold....

I believe the logical thing to do would be to discontinue the PRO console. PS5 is the new pro. If a consumer wants to pay more to get the best graphics he can on PlayStation, he'll buy a PS5. If price is an issue, there is PS4. Who would PS4Pro then be for? I believe a tiny market, thus, discontinue the bitch.

 

[HBRU]

I said that less performing ps5 chip can be used as ps4-pro-slim clocking them at 911 mhz (gpu side)... This has a lot of economical sense... Its not ps4-pro of course because zen2 are inside... But BC seems to be reached on a pure HW basis... So final result is the same as pro... or better so they may even call it pro2 (if someone manages to use zen2&Navi extra power by adapting the games....)

 

[Sigfried1977]

What did you base your inflation figures on?
Because from where I sit that’s not accurate.
In $1995 you could buy a house here in Australia for $60,000 ave. . Now to buy the same house it will cost you $600,000.
So since a house is most peoples single largest purchase I’d say those inflation figures are wrong by a long way.
Fuel was way cheaper then too, by a long way. And the list goes on and on.

Edit. For computers it was way worse.....you know What most PCs cost back then....a fortune...try $4000. In $1995 money give or take.

You said it yourself: some things got insanely more expensive. Other things became way more affordable. That is not inflation, though.

As for my figures: plenty of online calculators for that.

 

[HBRU]

Having Sony to face Stadia a cheap "pro" with no SSD&Blueray but just an HD... Hdmi 2.0 ... At around 200 dollars can be really interesting.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I said that less performing ps5 chip can be used as ps4-pro-slim clocking them at 911 mhz (gpu side).

That's not a Pro but a PS5 Lite. It wouldn't run PS4 games better, but PS5 games worse (your notion of a PS4 Pro still being targeted is a machine playing inferior versions of PS5 games).

The low end will be catered for by whatever the cheapest product is, which'll be a die shrunk PS4 if Sony want to go that route.

Having Sony to face Stadia a cheap "pro" with no SSD&Blueray but just an HD... Hdmi 2.0 ... At around 200 dollars can be really interesting.

1) Sony aren't competing with Stadia. Stadia is a game streaming service in competition with PSNow and XCloud. Can you please drop it with the Stadia talk everywhere?

2) How are they going to release a $400+ next-gen machine and also have a $200 version out the door?? A $200 machine will be...PS4! Obviously.

 

[HBRU]

I agree its a ps5 lite... But as no games are most probably going to be produced for it (specially in the beg) so it's better to call it ps4-pro or ps4-pro2.... Why don't you think Sony has to compete with Google ? I think this underperforming cutted ps5 can be sold cheap (200 dollars) with maybe 6 months of NOW included... Sony can even think to make a "NOW" cutted with fewer games and include it permanently in the PLUS ... So this will resamble Stadia offer

 

[Globalisateur]

I believe the logical thing to do would be to discontinue the PRO console. PS5 is the new pro. If a consumer wants to pay more to get the best graphics he can on PlayStation, he'll buy a PS5. If price is an issue, there is PS4. Who would PS4Pro then be for? I believe a tiny market, thus, discontinue the bitch.

Sony don't discontinue their consoles because it's more logical. They usually sell them until nobody wants them. They'll discontinue the Pro once nobody buys it.

The way I see their product line in end of 2020 and 2021.

Cheap 1080p HDD machine: $199 (PS4),
Cheap 4K HDD machine: $299 (Pro),
Premium 4K RT SSD machine: $499 (PS5).

 

[Nisaaru]

I can't really see the point of the Pro with the PS5.

 

[BRiT]

How much would the cost of moving to 7nm for old chips be? Then there is the cost of mfg for each chip being higher. Then for how long would Sony make the old chips on new process. I dont see it happening because the cost recovery is too much for too long.

 

[AlNom]

How much would the cost of moving to 7nm for old chips be? Then there is the cost of mfg for each chip being higher. Then for how long would Sony make the old chips on new process. I dont see it happening because the cost recovery is too much for too long.

Shrinking 4Base again might not be as feasible while dealing with the 256-bit bus (seems likely, given they're already around 210mm^2 @16nm). Even if they switch to GDDR6, the cost savings might be a wash (11Gbps, 4x16Gbit). One avenue might be to shrink Neo, and then just disable half the GPU for 4Slimmer (large enough die to support the existing bus) to kill two birds with one stone, but that seems a bit naff if they expect sales to drop off a cliff ala PS3 at the generation switch.

The most likely would just be another quiet revision on "12nm" (if it hasn't already been done, which is just another variant of 16nm, so not much involved).