ATI XBOX 2 etc etc performance etc etc
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How would the MS recruiter know about planned features like spectator mode and live ticker scrolls? That would have to come from someone in the games division.
But these are hardly revolutionary features and they can be done now (EA and others have implemented tickers already). So for all we know, it could be recruiting for jobs involving the current console.
Then again, these are sports games features and we know MS has dropped their sports games.
But these are hardly revolutionary features and they can be done now (EA and others have implemented tickers already). So for all we know, it could be recruiting for jobs involving the current console.
Then again, these are sports games features and we know MS has dropped their sports games.
DeanoC said:If I laugh any harder I'll wet myself.
hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............................
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*trying to visualize*
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jvd said:No on what daveDaveBaumann said:
*cough*expect*cough*more*cough*
just teasin!bbot said:
I've come to believe in two essential truths: While not the most famous, and quite obscure as it's a loose ancillary to the less well known of the two, it's never-the-less wise to adhere to while at B3D: "Never go in against a Dave, when Graphics are on the line!" ...Unless, of course, you're Sicilian.
Well the current rumor is the r420 refresh is 24x1 in that case i could see more 32x1 for the r520. For percision i wouldn't expect more than fp32 for a long time. Also going foward the pipelines are going to be less and less of a problem. It will be shader performance that will be the bottleneck..
i hope your joking , letting sony have a monoply of the video game industry is the worse thing that can happen.
it depends i guess on what you really need your chip to do. I don't see how 2 tmus can really hurt that much. Perhaps we will see a 24x2 or 32x2 for the xenon.
jvd said:
24x1
so that's just more shader ops per second by default right 
:?Isn't there some sort of limit to how many pipes we should really need or a different way of getting more shader power than adding pipes? :?
I'm just wondering if there is a use for having 2 TMU's in a console at this point. They only just help with multi-texturing, right? But no one really talks about that now... Is it just something that died off or is it something that is just a standard
Would it help with say... applying bumpmaps + spec maps + diffuse maps etc faster or do the super high number of pipes make it obsoleteVince said:jvd said:
Oh yeah! Since there's definitly been a lack of innovation and investment into research (on any front) by Sony. Wait, wait for it... it's comming...
You think if ms and nintendo weren't around sony wouldn't extend its its console cycles ?
well yea it will add to the shader power naturaly . though i guess they can add power many othre ways .
it would speed up the chips in multitextureing . it would help i guess , esp if you apply many levels of of textures . on a console i can see it helping more than on the pcs now.
Alstrong said:I'm just wondering if there is a use for having 2 TMU's in a console at this point. They only just help with multi-texturing, right? But no one really talks about that now... Is it just something that died off or is it something that is just a standard
Basically it would allow each pipeline to be able to work with two textures at a time or where you need to get two values from the same texture at the same time. Lots of times it should be possible for the video card to organize to texture accesses to occur at once plus texture accesses aren't exactly the fastest operation on the latest cards for their pixel shaders. Most of them can perform math operations much faster in comparison.
But 2 TMU's can really help out for items like shadow maps assuming the limiting factor is how fast the video card can give the shadow data to the shader (not memory limited of course since it will be on cache the small area being accessed for the pixel). You prolly will be able to see 30% improvement or so for a shadow map routine that uses lots of texture sampling I would vaguely guess (there is other operations such as comparisons that still need to be done but the texture accesses are defiantely the slow part).
Inconceivable!Vince said:
jvd said:
I dont see ATI throwing away the r420 design for and replacing a very succesful high end part with a 40% larger one for less than 6 months shelf life. what will they do with a SM2.0 24 pipes/230mil transistors part in the summer of 2005? wipe their collective a*ses?
R520 could/should be a "more pipes"/highly parallel design but for the R400/R500 I see, due to the unified architecture, a low pipe count (16 max), very high clock speed (above 1 GHz), huge amounts of cache and, maybe, embedded RAM.
Re: Innovation
Sony had the HDD planned already before the xbox was announced. Don't know about the headset, but as there has been usb ports on PS2's from day one, I wouldn't be surprised if connecting a mic and headphones hadn't crossed the PS2 hardware designer's mind at some point.
Edit: I wonder if PS2 had not had the expansion bay for HDD from the launch, would the xbox have included it either :?
Hard drives and headsets have been around before xbox. Ever heard of PC's and online gaming?Proforma said:
Sony had the HDD planned already before the xbox was announced. Don't know about the headset, but as there has been usb ports on PS2's from day one, I wouldn't be surprised if connecting a mic and headphones hadn't crossed the PS2 hardware designer's mind at some point.
Edit: I wonder if PS2 had not had the expansion bay for HDD from the launch, would the xbox have included it either :?
I imagine it would, as Microsoft would have wanted to lean on their computer strengths regardless, and HD's are a territory they know well, and something unused in consoles before. (Though perhaps knowing PS2 would bring it about at SOME point, they made sure to one-up them by including it at launch? Meh. Impossible to know all ramifications.)
And on the microphone point, amusingly the PS2 was using it (with SOCOM at least, if not other games) before Xbox Live went... uh... live. Not that I would make a point to mention either of these things in the context of "driving innovation" since they are old tech and old concepts--just finally bring used more commonly on consoles as well. (Not even "brought over" as I believe the Dreamcast did that with Seaman. Though I seem to remember something on the N64 released at about the same time as that. [EDIT: The N64 game did come out in the US after Seaman, but it was originally released in Japan about two years earlier, which I guess makes them the party that broke into the field of voice recognition and microphone-use. Offhand I only know of those games (and Alien Front Online) that used it, though Dreamcast also had a karaoke attachment.]
There are other--valid--points one could use while saying "Sony is still trying to copy Xbox Live" but somehow you picked the worst two.
And on the microphone point, amusingly the PS2 was using it (with SOCOM at least, if not other games) before Xbox Live went... uh... live. Not that I would make a point to mention either of these things in the context of "driving innovation" since they are old tech and old concepts--just finally bring used more commonly on consoles as well. (Not even "brought over" as I believe the Dreamcast did that with Seaman. Though I seem to remember something on the N64 released at about the same time as that. [EDIT: The N64 game did come out in the US after Seaman, but it was originally released in Japan about two years earlier, which I guess makes them the party that broke into the field of voice recognition and microphone-use. Offhand I only know of those games (and Alien Front Online) that used it, though Dreamcast also had a karaoke attachment.]
There are other--valid--points one could use while saying "Sony is still trying to copy Xbox Live" but somehow you picked the worst two.
Xbox Live is a service. A damn fine one to boot. If i dare say, the premier one.
Take a look at how much further MS is planning to push it.
"Are you interested in using C# and .NET to improve the integrity and performance of servers? Want to help create a new feature for Xenon not available on any other platform? Microsoft Game Studios Publishing is looking for an SDET with server experience to help design and implement the new Xenon Title Server features, including: a spectator mode for many Xenon games, Xbox TV - with tickers at the bottom of the screen featuring recent high scores and game highlights, a tournament system, and tradable trophies. Core technical challenges the team will face include: integrating networking code with existing networking layers of many games, optimizing the SQL server backend, working with restricted console memory, optimizing data flow, designing and implementing scalable servers, and integrating several systems into a single customer experience"
Hiring now!
Take a look at how much further MS is planning to push it.
"Are you interested in using C# and .NET to improve the integrity and performance of servers? Want to help create a new feature for Xenon not available on any other platform? Microsoft Game Studios Publishing is looking for an SDET with server experience to help design and implement the new Xenon Title Server features, including: a spectator mode for many Xenon games, Xbox TV - with tickers at the bottom of the screen featuring recent high scores and game highlights, a tournament system, and tradable trophies. Core technical challenges the team will face include: integrating networking code with existing networking layers of many games, optimizing the SQL server backend, working with restricted console memory, optimizing data flow, designing and implementing scalable servers, and integrating several systems into a single customer experience"
Hiring now!
Doesn't matter, they are canning it soon.
Xbox have always been designed to have an internal storage, to act as the catalyst for MS ambitious online services. Initial plans were to launch Xbox in 2000 with a built-in 4GB HDD, until it was pushed back.
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