ATI - PS3 is Unrefined

[DeanA]

Can you shed any more light, within the bounds of your NDA?

Not really, no..

 

[Thegameman]

Screw what Epic said. There was no PS3 hardware at E3 and that's common knowledge. Why are we pretending like it's not?

Shit, dev's BARELY have a full PS3 dev kit as of this moment.

It's PR spin of the best kind. But let's not pretend that Kutaragi didn't spew the same level of hype about the PS3. This basically evens the score. Face it, every mention of PS3's supposed "superior" hardware came from Sony PR or their moneyhat minions like Factor Five and that middleware provider they bought (SN Systems, I think).

The systems are roughly equal in performance. I said it once and I'll say it again, if you're planning on buying a PS3 because of some fabled belief that it will be much more technically superior to the Xbox 360, then you will be disappointed. If you're planning to buy one because of a games library that will kick the shit out of you, then you'll be very, very, very impressed.

Hey don't tell this to any one but .......


There was not xbox 360 hardware at E3 either...


All was show on Alpha kist which = 2 G5 and a X850 card,in fact GOW was demo on 2 6800 Ultra on SLI,cuz the alpha kits could not handle it.


Now how does that stop you from believing that what MS show on E3 was on real xbox 360 hardware?


In fact at E3 sony had a 2.4 ghz Cell kit with a 7800.

 

[Synergy34]

Face it, every mention of PS3's supposed "superior" hardware came from Sony PR or their moneyhat minions like Factor Five and that middleware provider they bought (SN Systems, I think).

The systems are roughly equal in performance. I said it once and I'll say it again, if you're planning on buying a PS3 because of some fabled belief that it will be much more technically superior to the Xbox 360, then you will be disappointed. If you're planning to buy one because of a games library that will kick the shit out of you, then you'll be very, very, very impressed.

That isn't entirely true. The "orders of magnitude" quote came from EA I believe, taken from early quotes from an issue of EGM. Well, thats where i read it first anyway.

I do agree with the second part though somewhat. Except I really do think the PS3 will be more powerful than the 360, but not by much.

 

[zidane1strife]

WRT the Molina demo.. From memory, I don't think it taxed the machine too much, to be honest. It certainly runs a lot faster on current evaluation systems (3.2Ghz DD2.0, Type C graphics). And no, it wasn't using the largest textures sizes the h/w can handle.

Wow, thanks. can you give us a vague hint on the fps, original, post boost, or both?

 

[DeanA]

Wow, thanks. can you give us a vague hint on the fps, original, post boost, or both?

Sorry, but I don't have numbers available (as I said, it's all a long time ago), but the demo has always run at 60fps (we lock to vsync). And yup, I'm aware that doesn't actually give you any information to let you compare original/current timings.. that's kinda the point..

 

[Deepak]

There's a lot brute force in there - I'd be the last person to admit it, but the truth is that the 7800GTX is a pretty powerful piece of hardware,....

Sounds good for PS3....:smile:

 

[zidane1strife]

Sorry, but I don't have numbers available (as I said, it's all a long time ago), but the demo has always run at 60fps (we lock to vsync). And yup, I'm aware that doesn't actually give you any information to let you compare original/current timings.. that's kinda the point..

locked at 60fps thanks again, can you comment, on the resolution 1080p or 720p(I'd imagine that's public knowledge given there were spectators at e3, but I've not heard it)?

PS
Hmmm, I wonder... you probably can't answer the following, but surely this knowledge has leaked, and someone knows:
Cell Evaluation Board, given there weren't sli'ed kits, and there was mention of 6800u's, was that running with a single 6800u or was it using 7800? What gpu was in that kit?

 

[fearsomepirate]

The only time I've ever heard R480 referenced when speaking of Xenos was in a flawed comparison between the two, in which the conclusion was that it would act like a 20-pipe R480...a bunch of stuff...Which really begs the question of why G70 doesn't perform better, since it should have considerably greater opportunity to use that second ALU. Or perhaps I'm too tired to think straight.

Off topic, but you know, I consider myself pretty nerdy. Really. But sometimes I'm just amazed at how much stuff you guys on this forum know (and the guys who just act like they know stuff, I totally have you pegged for what you are).

That said, X-Men Legends II is fun!

 

[Thegameman]

In fact this is just 100% PR...


MS moves and comments had been very herratic.


They had say the xbox 360 will out perform the PS3,to say that both will be a ferrari to the xbox 360 will outperform the PS3 again...

 

[mckmas8808]

WRT the Molina demo.. From memory, I don't think it taxed the machine too much, to be honest. It certainly runs a lot faster on current evaluation systems (3.2Ghz DD2.0, Type C graphics). And no, it wasn't using the largest textures sizes the h/w can handle.

I know you are a busy person but I need to ask you one question. Do you see faces in PS3 games during "cutscenes" being as good as the Molina demo?

 

[DeanA]

can you comment on the resolution 1080p or 720p

Our demos were at 720p.

What gpu was in that kit?

Our demos were shown on kit using a Type B graphics card.

 

[liolio]

I hope for sony's sake that the ps3 will be more powerfull than XBox360.
OK there is a conference in january, will know better at this time.
But i see more and more clue about PS3 hitting Japan in mid/late 2006 (i guess late).
I don't see sony take risks of shortage for his more important market niche, so i don't expect a world wide launch even a usa+japan launch.
So i guess that the USA will see pS3 in early 2007...
i'm french so i just expect a psp kind of launch.... very late...
I'm not shoke by the ATI PR, why would ATI/MS and nvidia/sony have to be fair.
Sony seems late and keeps secret (it easy to keep the hype up when nobody have a clue, no real denie is possible )
MS and ATI denie hardware superiority, in fact is fair.
Sony expect usa and european consumer to wait until 2007 (unlikely but it seems they have no choice).
If the edge of PS3 is as thin as some devs (i know it's PR anywhere) suspect, Sony will have a hardtime in USA and europe.
I agrees with the fact that the ATI PR is unrefined (lol) but 1080p X4 hdr with 128bit bus seems too ( lol ).
In fact as the time go and if i 've to do the ms whore, i would more than likely think that sony has some very clues about xenos efficience.

(all that E3 annoying if you ask me, i wait in game trailers.. )

 

[DeanA]

I know you are a busy person but I need to ask you one question. Do you see faces in PS3 games during "cutscenes" being as good as the Molina demo?

Yeah.. sure. Infact, I'd probably expect them to be better in some areas (more animation detail etc). Our methods have improved a lot over the last 10-12 months..

 

[Laa-Yosh]

It's not just a matter of performance... creating such a high quality model takes a lot of work, a lot of money, and I'm not sure how many publishers are willing to spend so much...

 

[Bad_Boy]

Yeah.. sure. Infact, I'd probably expect them to be better in some areas (more animation detail etc). Our methods have improved a lot over the last 10-12 months..

Any chance you'll be showing your improved methods soon?
Say...CES06?

please say yes

 

[zidane1strife]

It's not just a matter of performance... creating such a high quality model takes a lot of work, a lot of money, and I'm not sure how many publishers are willing to spend so much...

Doesn't bode well for the pc, if that's the case, if dev.s can't financially cope with merely creating the extraordinary lvls of detail that the weaker than ps3 non-final dev kits can achieve

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Doesn't bode well for the pc, if that's the case, if dev.s can't financially cope with merely creating the extraordinary lvls of detail that the weaker than ps3 non-final dev kits can achieve

This is ridiculous. FYI: the PS3 devkit itself has nothing to do with the content. That Molina head was created by downscaling assets from the Spiderman 2 movie; in this case, the digital double of the actor, that was created by scanning him and processing the pointcloud data to build an animatable model. Access to such a scanner, and hour rates for the artists to build the model are both quite expensive.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is ridiculous. FYI: the PS3 devkit itself has nothing to do with the content. That Molina head was created by downscaling assets from the Spiderman 2 movie; in this case, the digital double of the actor, that was created by scanning him and processing the pointcloud data to build an animatable model. Access to such a scanner, and hour rates for the artists to build the model are both quite expensive.

True but I read that EA is using some type of Matrix scanner for their Medal of Honar game that is being built up from the ground for the PS3. And I also thought I read somewhere on this board that the dev team for Lair was doing something similar.

 

[Titanio]

True but I read that EA is using some type of Matrix scanner for their Medal of Honar game that is being built up from the ground for the PS3.

PS3 may probably be the lead platform, but it's only "built from the ground up" for a particular platform in so far as any EA/Renderware game can be

 

[Bad_Boy]

True but I read that EA is using some type of Matrix scanner for their Medal of Honar game that is being built up from the ground for the PS3. And I also thought I read somewhere on this board that the dev team for Lair was doing something similar.

Yeah, I beleive EA used scans for fight night also. (which i beleive would be a different studio from the EA MOH team) I think the guy from MTV went to interview Kudo, and Kudo got his head scanned and eventually put him in the game. It seemed like a pretty fast and cost effective process to just do that for free?

I'll try to find a link, but I believe it was on "MTV overdrive". I hope somebody else knows what im refering to incase I cant find it.