Astronomy and space exploration

The landing spot for NASA's Mars 2020 rover was finally announced this week:
Mars 2020 Rover Will Land at Ancient Lakebed to Search for Signs of Life
By Meghan Bartels, Space.com Senior Writer | November 20, 2018 06:58am ET
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This crater on Mars, named Jezero, was once a lake — and on the right-hand side of this image, a flood long ago burst through its edge, creating a canyon.
Credit: Tim Goudge/NASA
Scientists have identified 24 ancient lakes on Mars that once overflowed and burst through their walls, forming steep-sided canyons — and NASA's Mars 2020 rover will explore the neighborhood of one of these paleolakes, looking for traces of ancient life.

Jezero Crater is one of two dozen sites that a team of geologists examined for signs of how canyons formed: by massive individual flooding events or by slower flows over longer periods of time. Their findings suggest that for the chosen canyons, the former occurred, with a sudden flood rapidly carving canyons across the Martian surface.
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https://www.space.com/42489-lakes-on-mars-burst-formed-canyons.html

Elon Musk rebrands BFR rocket:
No More BFR: SpaceX Changing Name of Mars-Colonizing Rocket, Spaceship
By Mike Wall, Space.com Senior Writer | November 20, 2018 01:43pm ET

Elon Musk is rebranding SpaceX's Mars-colonizing spaceflight system yet again.

The huge, reusable rocket-spaceship duo that SpaceX is building to ferry people to the Red Planet and other celestial destinations will no longer be called the BFR ("Big Falcon Rocket") and BFS ("Big Falcon Spaceship"), respectively.

"Renaming BFR to Starship," Musk announced via Twitter last night (Nov. 19). [The BFR in Images: SpaceX's Giant Spaceship for Mars & Beyond]

"Technically, two parts: Starship is the spaceship/upper stage & Super Heavy is the rocket booster needed to escape Earth’s deep gravity well (not needed for other planets or moons)," the billionaire entrepreneur added in another tweet.
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https://www.space.com/42499-spacex-bfr-mars-spaceship-name-change.html
 
SpaceX's 1st Crew Dragon Test Flight to Launch Jan. 7, NASA Says
By Mike Wall, Space.com Senior Writer | November 21, 2018 04:16pm ET
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An artist’s illustration of a SpaceX Crew Dragon spacecraft docking with the International Space Station (ISS). Crew Dragon’s first demonstration mission, an uncrewed flight to the ISS, is scheduled for Jan. 7, 2019.
Credit: NASA
We now know when SpaceX's new astronaut taxi will head to orbit for the first time.

The maiden flight of the Crew Dragon capsule — an uncrewed test mission to the International Space Station (ISS) called Demo-1 — is scheduled to launch Jan. 7, NASA officials announced today (Nov. 21).

Crew Dragon will lift off atop a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from the historic Launch Complex 39A at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida, which also served as the jumping-off point for Apollo moon missions and space shuttle flights over the years.

SpaceX is developing Crew Dragon to ferry astronauts to and from the ISS, under a multibillion-dollar contract with NASA. The first crewed test flight of the capsule, known as Demo-2, is currently targeted for June 2019; an in-flight "abort test" that proves out Crew Dragon's emergency-escape systems will take place between the two demonstration missions, NASA officials said in today's update.
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https://www.space.com/42514-spacex-first-crew-dragon-launch-january-2019.html

I'm happy to see that we finally get some dates, and that those are not later than expected.

Now I want some updates on the new BRF... sorry, Starship! :rolleyes:
 
Elon Musk's obsession about mars colonization is so out of touch with reality that it's not even funny anymore.
 
rcf said:
Elon Musk's obsession about mars colonization is so out of touch with reality that it's not even funny anymore.
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I half agree.

He glosses over the details - and by details, I mean some really quite challenging technical hurdles. Showstoppers potentially.

Where Musk and people like him (specifically Jeff Bezos) have an advantage is being able to have a singular focus on their personal goal, regardless of how out there it might seem, and the money to back it up. They might fail, quite probably they will, but it's their money and what the heck, why not let them try?

The US and European state-funded space programmes are so tied in to politics, with shifting sands and shifting goals, and borderline corruption that they are basically irrelevant at this point in time.

Russia has no money. China could do what the privateers are aiming to do, because they are in a position to have a singular focus.

Western state-funded space agencies can't figure out what they want to do. Even if they could, they cannot persuade the people who sign the cheques to give them the money to achieve it. Therefore, they will achieve nothing.

If some dope smoking loon wants to shoot for Mars using private money, what the hell let him try.
 
rcf said:
Elon Musk's obsession about mars colonization is so out of touch with reality that it's not even funny anymore.
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Do you really think that's that far from reality? We may like it or not, but it think it's not (I'm talking about colonization... terraformation is a different story).
 
Davros said:
eloyc you realise any trip to mars would be a one way mission ?
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Yes, I do. At least now, but maybe in a near future it won't be just that way.

At any rate, I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure we'll see humans in Mars in this very century.
 
eloyc said:
Do you really think that's that far from reality? We may like it or not, but it think it's not (I'm talking about colonization... terraformation is a different story).
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yeah putting ppl on mars why difficult certainly aint as difficult as putting ppl on the moon in 1969.
terraforming OTOH is just a pipedream ATM
 
eloyc said:
Do you really think that's that far from reality? We may like it or not, but it think it's not (I'm talking about colonization... terraformation is a different story).
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We would have to move and deploy very large amounts of infrastructure into a planet located many millions of miles away in order to have the slightest chance of long term survival there.
Martian settlers would require a periodic and very expensive influx of supplies coming from earth, stuff like food, water, oxygen, energy, medicines, raw materials, building materials, replacement parts, etc, as we won't have the technology to make all that stuff on mars anytime soon.
If NASA alone spends US$ 4 billion per year on the ISS, then just imagine the costs of a martian colony.

Then we have the physical degeneration of the human body caused by extended periods in zero/low gravity, the psychological degeneration caused by the awful living conditions, and also the fact that mars has no magnetosphere to protect the settlers from prolonged exposure to cosmic radiation. Also, some people say the ship wouldn't even have enough shielding to protect the astronauts from cosmic radiation during the 6 to 12 month trip.
 
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rcf said:
We would have to move and deploy very large amounts of infrastructure into a planet located many millions of miles away in order to have the slightest chance of long term survival there.
Martian settlers would require a periodic and very expensive influx of supplies coming from earth, stuff like food, water, oxygen, energy, medicines, raw materials, building materials, replacement parts, etc, as we won't have the technology to make all that stuff on mars anytime soon.
If NASA alone spends US$ 4 billion per year on the ISS, then just imagine the costs of a martian colony.

Then we have the physical degeneration of the human body caused by extended periods in zero/low gravity, the psychological degeneration caused by the awful living conditions, and also the fact that mars has no magnetosphere to protect the settlers from prolonged exposure to cosmic radiation. Also, some people say the ship wouldn't even have enough shielding to protect the astronauts from cosmic radiation during the 6 to 12 month trip.
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We don't know what long term exposure to low gravity does. We've never had humans in a third of earth's gravity for any period of time. Other than a few mice, we've never had anything in a low gravity enviroment for more than a few days.

Zero g has know effects, most of which can be mitigated on the 3-6 month trip SpaceX propose. But then we don't know if ⅓g is enough to recover and be healthy in.

Cosmic radiation isn't an issue on the trip. It's an increased risk of cancer. Take the risk or not. We don't know what it means for life expectancy.

Solar radiation on the trip can kill outright but unlike cosmic radiation you can shelter against it. If there was ever a Mars railroad, I'm pretty sure they'd be the odd corpse ship arriving due to poor space weather forcasts. :)

As it stands, these aren't reasons to just not bother with exploration and colonization or the solar system.

The cost of a Mars/Moon base depends on large fully reusable rockets. In the next decade, SpaceX and Blue Origin will either succeed or fail at these. ISS and NASA costs are due to a large part that it costs $100m+ send anything to orbit on expendable rockets.

Changing this cost to mainly fuel with reusability means $1m for the entire habitable volume of the ISS to orbit. That's a crazy amount of volume in orbit for annual ISS costs!
 
cheapchips said:
Zero g has know effects, most of which can be mitigated on the 3-6 month trip SpaceX propose. But then we don't know if ⅓g is enough to recover and be healthy in.
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Mitigating most of the effects may not be enough if the remaining ones are still serious.
How would they mitigate the permanent visual impairment that starts happening after a few weeks in zero gravity due to high intracranial pressure?
Would astronauts arrive at mars with eyesight problems?
Would the spacecraft have to be rather large and spin like a centrifuge as shown in sci-fi movies?

Cosmic radiation isn't an issue on the trip. It's an increased risk of cancer. Take the risk or not. We don't know what it means for life expectancy.
Solar radiation on the trip can kill outright but unlike cosmic radiation you can shelter against it. If there was ever a Mars railroad, I'm pretty sure they'd be the odd corpse ship arriving due to poor space weather forcasts. :)
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By "cosmic radiation" I meant all kinds of radiation and particles to which the astronauts/settlers would be exposed, and as you've mentioned the biggest danger comes from the sun. Settlers could not only be killed during the trip but also have to live underground since mars has no magnetosphere to protect them. It also suffers from global dust storms that can leave the planet in the dark and hinder communications.

As it stands, these aren't reasons to just not bother with exploration and colonization or the solar system.
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Exploration of the solar system is valid, but it can be done by machines and it's very different from colonization.
IMO there are no good reasons for trying to colonize mars during this century. It's just an obsession of billionaires and sci-fi fans.
 
Despite all those side effects, which are true, and without even considering the advancements in science and technology that could soon mitigate or even eliminate some of them, I'm sure there are people in this planet willing to make the move. But they will do it provided more people will go there, not just 3 or 4 people... I guess.

PS: some people bought the new RTX cards because they think they're worth it, no matter what. I totally see the parallel, here. :D
 
rcf said:
IMO there are no good reasons for trying to colonize mars during this century. It's just an obsession of billionaires and sci-fi fans.
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The billionaires in question have both stated their love of good sci-fi authors.

There's no magic TV show physics that suddenly happen next century. Do it now while the economics are favourable.

Cheap spaceflight is possible. It's not inevitable. If it was, it would have happened in the 50 years since Apollo. Instead, it was bogged down by jobs programmes. A somewhat ironic legacy from a communism Vs capitalism race.

From a science point of view, 100t + reusable launch vehicles will enable some utterly amazing missions in the late 2020's.
 
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I'm pretty sure the people who like to visit this thread already saw it, but here it goes: :)
Behold! Here's the 1st Photo from Mars from NASA's InSight Lander.
By Mike Wall, Space.com Senior Writer | November 26, 2018 04:05pm ET

PASADENA, Calif. — NASA's newest Mars robot has already captured a photo of its rusty, dusty home.

The InSight lander touched down on the Red Planet today (Nov. 26) just before 3 p.m. EST (2000 GMT) and beamed home its first image from the surface mere minutes later. (You can see more amazing InSight Mars landing day photos here.)

"There it is!" Rob Manning, chief engineer here at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), said during live landing commentary today. "There is the horizon back there, the bluish sky. That's part of the lander deck on the front left." [NASA's InSight Mars Lander: Full Coverage]

The photo is speckled with black dots — probably particles of dust picked up during InSight's harrowing descent through the Martian atmosphere, Manning said. Future InSight images will be much clearer, after the camera's dust cover is removed, he added.

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This photo is the first image of Mars taken by NASA's InSight Mars lander after its successful landing on the plains of Elysium Planitia on Nov. 26, 2018. The dust seen in the image is on a dust cover protecting the camera.
Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech
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https://www.space.com/42544-insight-mars-landing-first-photo.html

And
InSight Mars Lander Unfurls Solar Wings Amid 'Quiet Beauty' of Red Planet
By Tariq Malik, Space.com Managing Editor | November 26, 2018 10:03pm ET

PASADENA, Calif. — After a dramatic and exhilarating landing on Mars, NASA's newest Martian robot InSight has found some serenity on the Red Planet. And now, it's soaking up the sun.

The InSight Mars lander has successfully unfurled its two fan-like solar arrays, allowing the robot to generate the power it will need to study the Martian interior for the next two years, NASA officials said late Monday (Nov. 26). NASA received confirmation that the solar arrays were deployed at 8:30 p.m. EST (0130 Nov. 27 GMT), about five-and-a-half hours after InSight landed on Mars.

"The InSight team can rest a little easier tonight now that we know the spacecraft solar arrays are deployed and recharging the batteries," Tom Hoffman, NASA's InSight project manager here at the agency's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), said in a statement. "It's been a long day for the team. But tomorrow begins an exciting new chapter for InSight: surface operations and the beginning of the instrument deployment phase." [NASA's InSight Mars Lander: Full Coverage]

Each of InSight's two solar wings are 7 feet (2.2 meters) wide. When unfurled, the arrays give the lander a wingspan equivalent in size to a "big 1960s convertible," NASA officials said in the same statement.

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NASA's InSight Mars lander captured this view of its surroundings shortly after touching down on the Red Planet on Nov. 26, 2018.
Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech via Twitter
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https://www.space.com/42550-insight-mars-lander-solar-arrays-deployed.html

MarCO's farewell picture of Mars!
This Farewell Photo of Mars by an Interplanetary Cubesat Is Absolutely Amazing
By Meghan Bartels, Space.com Senior Writer | November 26, 2018 07:17pm ET

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After relaying live communications for @NASAInSight as it landed, the tiny #MARCO B cubesat sent back this farewell image of the planet.
Credit: NASA/JPL
NASA's pair of Mars Cube One satellites have broken every record in their path. The two tiny hitchhikers to Mars were the first small satellites to leave Earth's immediate orbit, to provide near-real-time updates about a mission's success — and now, the first to capture a stunning farewell portrait of another planet.
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https://www.space.com/42547-amazing-mars-farewell-photo-marco-cubesats.html
 
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