Tahir said:
The british think Saddam is still in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/897268.asp?0cv=CB10
Are you ready for Round 2?
- Thread starter Nagorak
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The british think Saddam is still in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/897268.asp?0cv=CB10
Fred said:
I agree pretty much with what I snipped out. No need to post it. However, I would question your belief that Iraq and Afghanistan have been success stories. Afghanistan is slowly reverting back to an uncontrolled war zone. We don't have enough troops to police the country and keep it stable outside of Kabul, and there are attempts on Hamid Karzai's life many times a day.
In fact, before we went to Iraq, Karzai sent a special envoy to Washington basically saying "Please don't forget about us. We need help."
I would argue that thus far, Afghanistan has been a failure. We still haven't stabilized that country by any means. And from the reports coming out of the country, our troop allocation there is so sparse that Al-Qaeda are openly and brazenly setting up new terrorist camps deeper and deeper in the country, as well as becoming more bold in attacking our special ops and "regular" troops.
Iraq is too soon to tell at this point. We need to restore civil order first before we can even begin to call it a success.
I deem success when the countries are democratic, stable, and no longer require an overwhelming US military presence just to keep the peace. We're not there yet in either case.
Deflection
Newcomer
pascal said:
I agree this isn't going to happen, at least not soon. The precedent is 12 years of inspections and UN infighting
Humus said:
Toatally agree. Im for more interventions but shit like this: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396997 wont help the perceptive situation any...
I agree 100% with what you said about Afghanistan Natoma, calling it a success story so far is odd, especially the way things are developing over there in recent months.
The initial attack was a success (ridding the country of the Taliban and destroying any known open terrorist training camps), who expected anything less, but as far as securing and stabilizing the country goes there still lies a long and difficult road ahead. I pray that we (the international coalition which relies heavily on the US) are going to see it through instead of pulling out after a couple years of constant resistance like the Soviets had to (remember, their initial military attack was a huge success too, but a decade later they had to flee the country).
Basically everything outside Kabul and a few other cities is still pretty much a warzone. Even the German/Dutch led security forces for Kabul still get atacked by missile fire every other week and that's supposed to be one of the most secure places in the country right now (well, of course part of that safety relies on said forces). I don't even want to get into the lack of educational facilities or hospitals, the poverty, shortage of food and water, and all the other problems that still rule the everyday life of the vast majority of that afghani people. We sure bombed out the Al Quaeda and Taliban, but even while we barely started cleaning up the mess they left behind, they are already regrouping and recruiting again all over the country and along the Pakistani border, distributing their leaflets all over the place. It will take years to see if this will indeed turn out to be a success, right now I wouldn't qualify it as one...
The initial attack was a success (ridding the country of the Taliban and destroying any known open terrorist training camps), who expected anything less, but as far as securing and stabilizing the country goes there still lies a long and difficult road ahead. I pray that we (the international coalition which relies heavily on the US) are going to see it through instead of pulling out after a couple years of constant resistance like the Soviets had to (remember, their initial military attack was a huge success too, but a decade later they had to flee the country).
Basically everything outside Kabul and a few other cities is still pretty much a warzone. Even the German/Dutch led security forces for Kabul still get atacked by missile fire every other week and that's supposed to be one of the most secure places in the country right now (well, of course part of that safety relies on said forces). I don't even want to get into the lack of educational facilities or hospitals, the poverty, shortage of food and water, and all the other problems that still rule the everyday life of the vast majority of that afghani people. We sure bombed out the Al Quaeda and Taliban, but even while we barely started cleaning up the mess they left behind, they are already regrouping and recruiting again all over the country and along the Pakistani border, distributing their leaflets all over the place. It will take years to see if this will indeed turn out to be a success, right now I wouldn't qualify it as one...