Are Consoles Holding Back PC Gaming?

[Berek]

Are Consoles Holding Back PC Gaming? Why is piracy such an issue the past few years? Is piracy really a problem, or are there other underlying causes for the shift in focus toward consoles? Is it just that PC gaming is migrating more toward a casual, F2P, web-based market? What true value are DX11 GPUs today?:

"Despite all the excitement over Nvidia's upcoming Fermi GPU, there is still a distinct lack of DirectX 11 games on the market. This article points out that while the PC has returned to favor as a gaming platform, consoles are still the target for most developers, and still provide the major limitations on the technological sophistication of game graphics. Inside the Xbox 360 sits an ATI Xenos GPU, a DirectX 9c-based chip that bears similarity to the Radeon X1900 series of graphics cards (cards whose age means that they aren't even officially supported in Windows 7). Therein lies the rub. With the majority of PC games now starting life as console titles, games are still targeted at five-year-old DirectX 9 hardware."

http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/03/28/1324203/Are-Consoles-Holding-Back-PC-Gaming

 

[Squilliam]

There are more DX11 games out now than there were with any previous DX release. Years back every DX version was an act of faith for early adopters but at least this time we got the games almost upon release.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Long story short.

Piracy has always been a problem. Accerlating ease of pirating has also rapidly increased the incidents of pirating. Going from rather consumer unfriendly CUG/BBS pirating to modern day one click download and install pirating, and the various steps in between. FTP, IRC, Usenet were also rather esoteric with a daunting learning curve for your average non-computer enthusiast. Enter P2P (Kazaa, eDonkey, Limewire, etc) leading to todays one click Bittorrent searchable through Google, and the landscape has changed greatly even in the past few years...

Anyone, no matter how computer illiterate they are now, can easily pirate and install a game. It's almost as easy as stealing music over the internet.

As to Dx11. Compare and contrast with DX9. Following a similar through accerlated adoption curve. Dx11, could quite possibly end up being the fastest adopted version of DX.

Regards,
SB

 

[cp2009]

Yes.

 

[nightshade]

Uh...not another one of these threads.

 

[Grall]

Are Consoles Holding Back PC Gaming?

Yes, but it's for the best, really. With the galloping and increasingly ridiculous hardware requirements for running certain big titles starting in the early 2000s, PC gaming wasn't really that fun for those who had older systems. It certainly wasn't CHEAP either.

Hardware requirements have always been a bane for some PC gamers, that is true, but I think it's pretty hard to argue that the rate of requirements did NOT increase rather sharply over the last 10 or so years. Doom, Duke3D, Unreal and some others were famous for pushing PCs in the 90s, but then we got games like Doom 3, Farcry and Crysis.

Consoleitis is only really a problem when it leads to poor controls, checkpoint saving or other gameplay related restrictions.

 

[Npl]

I`d say PC`s are holding back PS3 games
How many PC-games make use of more than 2 cores... cant think of any.

And apart from bringing down quality, PCs brought a never ending flood of mediocre FPS`s to what was a way more diverse market the last generation.

See, you can bitch about it either way... and Im glad I dont have to buy a 100W+ GPU monstrosity to play the latest PC-Games.

 

[Malo]

I`d say PC`s are holding back PS3 games
How many PC-games make use of more than 2 cores... cant think of any.

And apart from bringing down quality, PCs brought a never ending flood of mediocre FPS`s to what was a way more diverse market the last generation.

See, you can bitch about it either way... and Im glad I dont have to buy a 100W+ GPU monstrosity to play the latest PC-Games.

Isn't there a big difference coding for multiple cores and coding for PS3 SPU's?

 

[Npl]

Isn't there a big difference coding for multiple cores and coding for PS3 SPU's?

Yep, SPUs need more special care. But breaking apart your code for "manycores" would be a good start.

 

[Neb]

I`d say PC`s are holding back PS3 games
How many PC-games make use of more than 2 cores... cant think of any.

Considering that most multiplatform games are done on consoles and ported to PC, PC cant then be holding those games back. And then a decent dual-core is still more powerful so the bane is they dont optimise beyond acceptable state as they know a dual can still handle it and we PC owners "suffer" becouse we dont get what could have been extra IQ or even more perfomance. :smile:

And apart from bringing down quality, PCs brought a never ending flood of mediocre FPS`s to what was a way more diverse market the last generation.

The casual market and 'lazy' mentality on mainly console side is the problem. Games cant be to hard, needs to have kills available each 30sec and player must feel like the 'one'... buahaha!

Remember the DAO "promotion" videos with excessive blood, sex and Marylin Manson music? They said it was to catter and attract the console crowd. I and I am sure many others where horrified but see end result was nothing like the promo material would have you believe. I will translate interview part where they said it. :S

 

[Davros]

I have the answer, round up console gamers and shoot them in the head. Unfortunately the p.c industry refuses to adopt my solution.

 

[Npl]

Considering that most multiplatform games are done on consoles and ported to PC, PC cant then be holding those games back. And then a decent dual-core is still more powerful so the bane is they dont optimise beyond acceptable state as they know a dual can still handle it and we PC owners "suffer" becouse we dont get what could have been extra IQ or even more perfomance. :smile:

Fair enough, but multiplattform games generally take shortcuts on all plattforms

The casual market and 'lazy' mentality on mainly console side is the problem. Games cant be to hard, needs to have kills available each 30sec and player must feel like the 'one'... buahaha!

You mean like PC-FPS`s where you can save every second so you can make the ending even by pure luck as long as you save often, which is also a nice excuse for the developer not spend a penny balancing the difficulty?
There are enough examples of deep console games, and some more of hard and unforgiving ones. The trend to "easy and accessible" certainly aint limted to them and its far fetched to say it originated on consoles (*cough* aforementioned FPS`s and braindead stuff like Diablo and Sims *cough*).

Remember the DAO "promotion" videos with excessive blood, sex and Marylin Manson music? They said it was to catter and attract the console crowd. I and I am sure many others where horrified but see end result was nothing like the promo material would have you believe. I will translate interview part where they said it. :S

Nope... but as the main drive in this game seems to be getting laid with your allies its probably not to far fetched

 

[Neb]

You mean like PC-FPS`s where you can save every second so you can make the ending even by pure luck as long as you save often, which is also a nice excuse for the developer not spend a penny balancing the difficulty?

Atleast it is up to you unlike automatic check point saves before any "challenging" part/battles. Sadly I can give my testimonial explicit checkpoint save system doesn't result in better/more thought out games... if anything it is the reverse. It also removes suspension as you know you are to getting into a battle or ditto whenever a checksave happens. Reason I always disable checkpoints if possible to not get the suspension ruined.

There are enough examples of deep console games, and some more of hard and unforgiving ones. The trend to "easy and accessible" certainly aint limted to them and its far fetched to say it originated on consoles (*cough* aforementioned FPS`s and braindead stuff like Diablo and Sims *cough*).

Question yourself why deep and well thought out RPG games dont get popular on consoles... or FPS with deeper RPG elements.

What happened with R6 series when it went multiplatform and many other series to...

Nope... but as the main drive in this game seems to be getting laid with your allies its probably not to far fetched

Actully no, it seems you never played the game. You are never forced into sexual situations nor encouraged to get into one unlike ME where you get to 'park the cadillac' into someone no mather choices at certain scripted point during game.

 

[swaaye]

I'd say the techno rat race for more perty is what is holding back gaming innovation. The cause of those $20+ million budgets. More risk averse than ever before, and rightfully so. See the movie industry for the same thing, and like the movie industry we have our indie games that often are forgotten but are innovative (and usually quirky too just like the "classics"). We even get regular releases of mindless all-pretties popcorn games.

 

[Npl]

Atleast it is up to you unlike automatic check point saves before any "challenging" part/battles. Sadly I can give my testimonial explicit checkpoint save system doesn't result in better/more thought out games... if anything it is the reverse.

A good done checkpoint system needs more work than just throwing out the option to just run through the game. Its more of a reward if you beat the challenges that are set out in their intended way rather than just make them as easy as you please. A possible modification would be to allow just a couple saves per level.

Question yourself why deep and well thought out RPG games dont get popular on consoles... or FPS with deeper RPG elemtens.

FPS with RPG Elements? Bethesda`s stuff sells inversely proportional to their "deepnes" AFAIR, just as it does on the PC.
Really tough Im a bit clueless what games you could be referring to, Im not particular fond of RPGs, but those which I consider deep and worth playing (Fallout1,2, Planescape:Torment) never got a chance on the consoles.
And FPS with RPG Elements - only thing well done is Deus Ex (and even that aint as great nowadays as my memory let me believe) which only had a bad port to PS2 i think, apart from naturally beeing gimped by lack of mouse-control.

What happened with R6 series when it went multiplatform and many other series to...

What happened to Counterstrike once it got popular? If you played it just a bit back then you would know what to think of the "average PC Player".

Actully no, it seems you never played the game. You are never forced into sexual situations nor encouraged to get into one unlike ME wher you get to 'park the cadillac' into someone no mather choices at certain scripted point during game.

I played it for 2 hours or so, the combat was such a chore that I couldnt go on even if the story was done nicely. And I said its a chore, not that Im not up to pausing the game when a warlock appears to spread my party and change to fireproof underwear, that Im not able to compare tons of looted armor with equipped one and do some simple math... its just that I enjoy such kind of gameplay as much as filling out taxforms, its some boring job Id do only if I get paid. Its practically the same system in any Bioware game - tons of options just making it hard to do the obvious. If you want to look at a good, deep combat-system look at Disgaea.
But thats drifting offtopic, I was basing the comment on what most players seem to spend their most time in this game.

 

[swaaye]

I don't think any of that has anything to do with consoles. Consoles have a lot of totally amazing games (hell, whole genres) that PC people rarely see.

What you're complaining about is the "normalization" of gameplay among genres. Instead of quirky challenges and risky new ideas, we have games converging and all playing the same and being somewhat easier to play. The desired result is surely maximum audience by making sure the barriers to entry aren't jarring. Mindlessness, like most movies, that's comfortable for all (except old school gamers living in nostalgia-land). Part of it is also likely that games are frequently made by >100 people now, farmed-out factory style, and the individualism is gone unless you have a really strong leader with a vision.

Some of it is also probably caused by the belief that certain gameplay elements have evolved and are desirable over others. Some of the classic games are ultra quirky and people like to ignore that aspect. That includes Deus Ex and everything else.

 

[Npl]

I don't think any of that has anything to do with consoles. Consoles have a lot of totally amazing games (hell, whole genres) that PC people rarely see.

What you're complaining about is the "normalization" of gameplay among genres. Instead of quirky challenges and risky new ideas, we have games converging and all playing the same and being somewhat easier to play. The desired result is surely maximum audience by making sure the barriers to entry aren't jarring. Mindlessness, like most movies, that's comfortable for all (except old school gamers living in nostalgia-land). Part of it is also likely that games are frequently made by >100 people now, farmed-out factory style, and the individualism is gone unless you have a really strong leader with a vision.

Fully agree, an this is a generic "mainstream" direction that aint coming from a single side. Standout titles getting few and far between.
The only good thing coming from that is probably that no one dares to release truly horrible titles (atleast fullprice PC/Console.. cellphones/Appstore is probably a different topic) - the kind that you see reviewed by AVGN.

 

[brain_stew]

I`d say PC`s are holding back PS3 games
How many PC-games make use of more than 2 cores... cant think of any.

Just about every major release from 2009 and 2010? Left 4 Dead 1/2, Dragon Age, Far Cry 2, GTA 4, Just Cause 2, Metro 2033 and countless more examples scale in a near linear fashion with more than 2 cores if you're not GPU bottlenecked.

That's not to say the consoles didn't speed up this process of course, as their horific single threaded performance necessitated the change and in the end that benefited PC gamers.

ANyway, this debate is tired and worn out and never goes anywhere or produces conversation of any merit. I just wanted to correct an inaccuracy, that's all, I'm out.

 

[Neb]

I played it for 2 hours or so, the combat was such a chore that I couldnt go on even if the story was done nicely. And I said its a chore, not that Im not up to pausing the game when a warlock appears to spread my party and change to fireproof underwear, that Im not able to compare tons of looted armor with equipped one and do some simple math... its just that I enjoy such kind of gameplay as much as filling out taxforms, its some boring job Id do only if I get paid. Its practically the same system in any Bioware game - tons of options just making it hard to do the obvious. If you want to look at a good, deep combat-system look at Disgaea.

So choices are bad I see. Handholding gameplay is preffered and tactics in combat regarding mix of fighting styles, magic use and flanking etc is disliked. Ofcourse this boils down to opinions now but I wonder what would DAO need to make you like it's gameplay, additions or simplifications?

 

[aaronspink]

I'd say the techno rat race for more perty is what is holding back gaming innovation. The cause of those $20+ million budgets. More risk averse than ever before, and rightfully so. See the movie industry for the same thing, and like the movie industry we have our indie games that often are forgotten but are innovative (and usually quirky too just like the "classics"). We even get regular releases of mindless all-pretties popcorn games.

I think it was the death of Troika!