Very damming so basically from now on, you can ignore Linus Tech Tips videos as garbage, The slide at 1:30 should of told them, Oh something is not right with our benchmarks. Sheesh
Apple is an existential threat to the PC
- Thread starter MfA
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Honestly, I think even the supposed best of the tech review sites are quite bad.
The explanation given here is that sites benchmark different parts of the games, so they get wildly different results. So one site will say AMD runs the game the best, and another site will say Nvidia runs the best, with fairly large discrepenies. It's hand-waved away as, "It's hard to decide where to benchmark the game." Ultimately the problem is time. The economics of youtube mean they want to spam content, and to test so many gpus means maybe three to five benchmark runs of a particular game in the same spot. The real answer should be that a review would illuminate the circumstances where one product is stronger than another and vice versa. I honestly don't think many of these review sites actually explore results in detail. They just collect some set of data as fast as possible, make a bunch of graphs and edit the videos so they can have a daily upload on a youtube channel.
LTT has been praised on B3D before. Anyway the comments section is quite funny to read, Maxtech is the largest apple-fan youtuber on the net, yet he got quit much backlash on that video.
You cant just use only video editing or apple optimized apps and go with that, not for long atleast. Specialized hardware for specific purposes just does very well.
Anyway, calling LTT garbage but not Maxtech? lol
Comments on that youtube video from maxtech seem to go as follows (high-liked comments):
''Amin Bajrektarevic
Honestly I find the LTT video the first realistic coverage! Everyone was hyping these things up so much that when I got one I was in for a rough wake-up. Everyone was cherrypicking the good stuff, but no one talks about something like after effects that runs like absolute cr*p on the m1 pro. In most software I use, the M1 pro has real trouble keeping up with my previous 2018 15” macbook pro. Yes, it’s all happening in rosetta, but the reality is, a loooot of professional software out there is far from being ported to arm.''
''xaratemplate
I think the core issue is the unknown timeline for when things will be optimized. If it is not optimized then that creates a problem for real world use especially in a business environment. You can't operate a business on a hope that things will be optimized sooner or later. Basically PC has the advantage of being more mainstream and more optimized at this point... that is the trade-off of buying a mac. I know because I bought one and I still have a PC as well because some apps just don't work properly on Mac. I think a better way to do these videos would be to admit you really need both PC and Mac to get the most value for your money. For portability buy the Mac Laptop for raw power buy a PC laptop that is still portable but can be plugged in on the go like on an Airplane or bring a power station to plug into when outside etc...''
''Epic Music
I think LTT wanted to highlight different tests since other YouTubers have already highlighted the video editing parts(or they can’t think of how to recommend it because of all the software incompatibilities and bugs).
Also since linus invested in framework, they may be planning to do a repairability review also.''
''imneveruploadinghere
So, are they supposed to only use the "optimized" apps and benchmarks so that the M1 Macs look better? They used apps that other people use so you could see the performance differences since not everything has been natively ported to ARM and work properly with M1 yet.''
My problem with the apple stuff is people are either highlighting all of the positivies or highlighting all of the negatives. Show me the software that's optimized and show me the software that's not. Some people will switch their "workflow" if the performance is good enough. Some will not. You need the information to decide. Honestly though, watching that LTT video their selection of software and settings is just plain weird.
You conveniently forgot to quote comments with a high number of likes that didn't fit your beliefs.
You conveniently skipped the whole discussion here, otherwise you would know why he quoted those and not others.
Oh sure some times theres gonna be mistakes, but when that Linus Tech Tips site has a benchmark 1:30 (*) thats obviously bogus to anyone thinking about it for more than a second you've gotta go actually this is deliberate misrepresentation (plus the other stuff in the video)
(*) in graphics terms its like, where anyone who knows even a little bit about graphics can see the following numbers are bogus
GTAV nvidia 3090 average @ 4k = 20 fps
GTAV nvidia 2060 average @ 4k = 80 fps
Im not pro apple at all, in fact they're my most disliked tech company but the truth is important, even if its about something we dont like.
(*) in graphics terms its like, where anyone who knows even a little bit about graphics can see the following numbers are bogus
GTAV nvidia 3090 average @ 4k = 20 fps
GTAV nvidia 2060 average @ 4k = 80 fps
Im not pro apple at all, in fact they're my most disliked tech company but the truth is important, even if its about something we dont like.
Blender (alpha build) shows 5x improvement on the M1 Max, bringing performance to parity with a 95w RTX 3080 Mobile.
When both the MacBook Pro and Razer 15 are unplugged, the M1 Max is over twice as fast.
Do people still believe that the M1 Max’s GPU is equivalent to an RTX 3050?
Edit: it’s just a shame that sites which do proper benchmarks are so one-eyed and have an incentive to cover Apple in the most negative light possible at times. My grievance with the LTT review is that they knew that they were benching apps and use-cases where the software support is clearly lacking. To then turn around and say “M1 Max GPU = RTX 3050” in terms of hardware — without acknowledging software bottlenecks — is disingenuous. But hey, they have a duty to entertain their audience: you can’t be too positive when it comes to Apple hardware.
They may be the most disliked, but they also have the strongest cult following to balance it out
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Blender (alpha build) shows 5x improvement on the M1 Max, bringing performance to parity with a 95w RTX 3080 Mobile.
When both the MacBook Pro and Razer 15 are unplugged, the M1 Max is over twice as fast.
Do people still believe that the M1 Max’s GPU is equivalent to an RTX 3050?
Edit: it’s just a shame that sites which do proper benchmarks are so one-eyed and have an incentive to cover Apple in the most negative light possible at times. My grievance with the LTT review is that they knew that they were benching apps and use-cases where the software support is clearly lacking. To then turn around and say “M1 Max GPU = RTX 3050” in terms of hardware — without acknowledging software bottlenecks — is disingenuous. But hey, they have a duty to entertain their audience: you can’t be too positive when it comes to Apple hardware.
This reminds me of the 90's. When reviewing Apple hardware, anything that doesn't use a benchmark that shows Apple hardware in the absolutely best light should be ignored. Because you know, people never use software or business applications that aren't optimized for the latest Apple hardware.
Thankfully, at least the M1 and MacOS aren't as bad now as the CPUs and MacOS were back in the 90's. But that attitude that only the benchmarks that perform best on Apple hardware should be used appears to still be there.
It's still a relatively new CPU, it's fine if sites benchmark applications that haven't been ported and optimized for the M1 yet, because you know there are still people that use those applications and will continue to use those applications until there's a optimized version for M1.
Obviously as applications get ported and optimized, the earlier reviews will become less relevant, but it would be a disservice by some sites to hold off on showing performance on some applications just because at some nebulous time in the future a ported and optimized version of that application might exist.
Regards,
SB
Do people still believe that the M1 Max’s GPU is equivalent to an RTX 3050?
Thats the performance it gets, in Apple apps/optimized it might come close to a 3080m, but most dont use those apps. In NV optimized apps the 3080m is ahead, by alot. Benches and specific apps will swing it either way one wants. Look, the average user doesnt care why it isn't performing as some made them believe it would, you dont buy a product on the promise of what it might potentionally deliver in the future, you buy a product based on what its delivering today.
Sorry but theres quite much truth to LTT's analysis, that one benchmark might be off (like certain maxtech's benches do in Apple's favor aswell), but the general premise is that those new M1 machines are plenty fast for video/content creation-like uses, but not that much faster than say a rtx mobile gpu, they are quite capable for that kind of stuff aswell. Thing is, content/creation and apple optimized apps is the only space where you'd see them performing so well. Windows laptops are kinda fast for everything, at a higher power usage and all, ofcourse. But then again, Apple is on a node advantage and the new Intel alder lake's are just released...
The dust has settled and the hype is slowly dying off, their great machines for sure, fast and efficient for specific workloads, for a specific audience (previous Apple/mac users mostly.
But that attitude that only the benchmarks that perform best on Apple hardware should be used appears to still be there.
It's still a relatively new CPU, it's fine if sites benchmark applications that haven't been ported and optimized for the M1 yet, because you know there are still people that use those application and will continue to use those applications until there's a optimized version for M1.
Benchmarks can show a huge advantage to whatever CPU/GPU anyone would want. Their only use-full if their optimized to the max for both platforms, which is rarely the case. And even if we'd have to rely purely on benchmarks, these M1 machines are trading blows with windows hardware thats often much cheaper, or flat-out loosing a by a magnitude.
Initially, i was quite impressed by the hype and benchmarks shown by Apple. Now the product has been out for a while and after some hands-on and direct comparison to a high end windows laptop, analysis and further testing done by all different kinds of youtubers, and with Intel releasing Alder lake, im not seeing, as per the topic, Apple taking over the PC and console industry on any short or long term. In fact, all they have done is waking up intel and AMD.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's an impressive chip regardless of the state of applications that people use on a daily basis. Especially considering the power envelope that it operates within. Whether it takes over the PC landscape? /shrug. Not for me to say or speculate on.
Regards,
SB
And so is RDNA2, Ampere, PS5, Series consoles, gaming laptops etc, their all impressive to me.
I dont give a shit about their cult (they are in the main cunts, I will grant you that)
all I care about is reality
and reality ATM is this is the only chip that give bang for silence buck <- this is what its all about (yes its cooled) but for me, chips should nbe rated how they perform uncooled (well 20 degrees airtemp). Set a 'reasonable' benchmark and stick with this
Blender (alpha build) shows 5x improvement on the M1 Max, bringing performance to parity with a 95w RTX 3080 Mobile.
When both the MacBook Pro and Razer 15 are unplugged, the M1 Max is over twice as fast.
Do people still believe that the M1 Max’s GPU is equivalent to an RTX 3050?
Edit: it’s just a shame that sites which do proper benchmarks are so one-eyed and have an incentive to cover Apple in the most negative light possible at times. My grievance with the LTT review is that they knew that they were benching apps and use-cases where the software support is clearly lacking. To then turn around and say “M1 Max GPU = RTX 3050” in terms of hardware — without acknowledging software bottlenecks — is disingenuous. But hey, they have a duty to entertain their audience: you can’t be too positive when it comes to Apple hardware.
That's awesome for alpha software. Probably just touched the low-hanging fruits for optimisation.
Premiere Pro also just updated for M1 Pro / Max and it also shows up to 5x better performance at certain tasks.
To be fair though it appears that the Windows build of Blender wasn't running the newest version with Optix rendering?
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I followed the conversation since the very first post of this thread, but I think that biased posts and reviews don't help the discussion.
And too many pro Apple sites alas often do the same which makes it hard to get good reviews.
LTT review was the perfect example of a useless partisan review. It was the very first time I watched an LTT review and I'm not sure I'll waste my time again with them.
World of Warcraft isn't an Apple app as far as I know and it seems to run very well.
Though I definitely agree with you that the potential is not what matters now (we have a saying in France that says "promises only bind those who believe in them") saying the M1 GPU is equivalent to an RTX 3050 by using apps running under Rosetta 2 was incredibly stupid and dishonest (or is it worse? could it be incompetence?).
