Yeah, the server sorts and organizes the files.
Based on the TwonkyMedia release note, it seems that if it could not find the static thumbnail of each listed item, PS3 may decide to generate them on-the-fly (all done locally).
Anyone using PS3 DLNA?
- Thread starter joker454
- Start date
Yeah, the server sorts and organizes the files.
Based on the TwonkyMedia release note, it seems that if it could not find the static thumbnail of each listed item, PS3 may decide to generate them on-the-fly (all done locally).
patsu said:
INSTALLATION
=========
Upgraded to TwonkyMedia 4.4.4 on TeraStation Live firmware 1.0.4 (Latest stable is 1.14). As expected, update process is beyond layman's capability. The step-by-step instructions are:
(1) Need to enable telnet on TeraStation using acp_commander: http://downloads.linkstationwiki.net/TOOLS/ALL_LS_KB_ARM9/ACP_COMMANDER (Run "java -jar acp_commander.jar -t <NAS IP ADDRESS> -o" from your Mac/Windows)
(2) Copy wget from http://buffalo.nas-central.org/download/Uploads/OldUploads/LS_Pro_temporary/Binaries/addons.tar to the TeraStation.
Then, run "tar -C / -xzvf addons.tar" by telneting to the TeraStation.
(3) Get TwonkyMedia 4.4.4 from here: http://www.twonkyvision.com/Download/TwonkyMedia/TM4Technicians.html
Run the installer on Windows.
Need to disable Windows Firewall because during upgrade, TeraStation will try to wget files from the installer program.
Took me 15 - 30 minutes to have everything in place (I had an additional complication because my Windows machine is on a different subnet from the TeraStation, causing the installer to fail because it couldn't find the DLNA box).
TRIAL RUN
=======
After upgrade...
My test movie, the KZ2 E3 2007 trailer, plays well. Both WMVHD and MP4 versions have zero problem. I can fast forward and rewind up to 120x (after a slight initial pause). Need to test more but I got to run. QuickTime files are detected as AVC but they cannot be played because they are slightly different from the ISO standard.
EDITED:
TwonkyMedia is snappy. I like its ability to detect new files on-the-fly (No need to rescan directory). Unfortunately, the detection is not consistent so far.
TwonkyMedia transcodes pictures and music files but not videos. I have TVersity just for that. It's set up to read from the same TeraStation storage. More next time.
P.S. I believe TeraStation has a 400MHz (?) ARM9
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Hmm, well that sounds promising. There seems to be more than one Terastation Live model, which one do you have? I wanted to compare it's specs to the dlink dns-323 which seems to have these specs:
CPU 500 Mhz Marvell 88F5181 proprietary Feroceon ARM CPU architecture
RAM 2x 32 MB Nanya NT5DS16M16CS-6K
http://buffalo.nas-central.org/index.php/Category:TerastationLive
According to that page, CPU is ARM926EJ-S which supposedly can run Java bytecode in hardware. 128Mb RAM.
Some more performance info here: http://buffalo.nas-central.org/index.php/TS-HTGL
The bundled DLNA software was PCast, a simple DLNA server. The unit doesn't have good review on Amazon, but it works well for me so far. I installed TwonkyVision 4.x over it.
Performance-wise, it may be similar to your DLink but with larger memory. The stuttering problem you encountered may indeed be due to a new bug in PS3. If you know where I can get one of these jerky video files, PM me the URL.
Also, I edited my last post to clarify my observations.
According to that page, CPU is ARM926EJ-S which supposedly can run Java bytecode in hardware. 128Mb RAM.
Some more performance info here: http://buffalo.nas-central.org/index.php/TS-HTGL
The bundled DLNA software was PCast, a simple DLNA server. The unit doesn't have good review on Amazon, but it works well for me so far. I installed TwonkyVision 4.x over it.
Performance-wise, it may be similar to your DLink but with larger memory. The stuttering problem you encountered may indeed be due to a new bug in PS3. If you know where I can get one of these jerky video files, PM me the URL.
Also, I edited my last post to clarify my observations.
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I moved my TVersity server (v0.9.11.2) to an old Mac Mini running Vista. It still reads from the TeraStation Live RAID box. Some quick comparison between MacMini Tversity and TeraStation TwonkyMedia:
* Tversity is much more versatile. It supports video transcoding via ffshow and WMP. It's able to convert QuickTime movies to MPEG2 stream on-the-fly for viewing. WMVHD and MPEG4 files are streamed directly by default.
* Tversity also supports network media. I can watch YouTube and G4tv videos from the "Internet video" channel. There is an easy way to name and organize the video URLs (e.g., xxx.yyy.zzz.http://blah will organize the URL under xxx > yyy > zzz). By default, Tversity includes some dynamic links (e.g., Top favorite YouTube videos, Most recent YouTube videos, etc), which is nice.
* Tversity sports a web interface with search. If you are at the last second level (one level above the leaf nodes), you can use keywords to retrieve the files you want.
* OTOH, I like TwonkyMedia's snappiness. It is very quick for regular operations. For example, I can fast forward a WMVHD (VC-1) stream to 120x quickly (by pressing the ff button repeatedly). For Tversity, the UI is not that responsive. Sometimes, I can push it to 30x and it will "hang" there trying to process the frames, and then come back much later. May be if I switch to a more powerful PC, the experience would be different.
For Tversity, MP4 files can be fast forwarded more quickly than WMVHD (both no transcoding). With transcoding turned on, fast forward can still work as long as the necessary frames have been converted.
* I also like TwonkyMedia's web admin features. I can change all the settings remotely. Tversity's web interface is only for media client access.
* Finally, Tversity sometimes refuses to start. Even when started, PS3 occasionally can't see it. TwonkyMedia has been very consistent in this aspect. It always shows up almost instantaenously.
A while ago, I moved all my media to the local HDD (when I moved my PS3 to the office and switched to a 60Gb). And some are still in my USB drives. I will now move them to the TeraStation again. Will be able to see how the PS3 fare with more media.
EDIT: I made a mistake in my description of TwonkyMedia in the last post. Basically, both Tversity and TwonkyMedia will filter the files according to the XMB media icons. i.e., if I am in the "video" icon, only video files will be shown even though the music and picture folders are visible.
* Tversity is much more versatile. It supports video transcoding via ffshow and WMP. It's able to convert QuickTime movies to MPEG2 stream on-the-fly for viewing. WMVHD and MPEG4 files are streamed directly by default.
* Tversity also supports network media. I can watch YouTube and G4tv videos from the "Internet video" channel. There is an easy way to name and organize the video URLs (e.g., xxx.yyy.zzz.http://blah will organize the URL under xxx > yyy > zzz). By default, Tversity includes some dynamic links (e.g., Top favorite YouTube videos, Most recent YouTube videos, etc), which is nice.
* Tversity sports a web interface with search. If you are at the last second level (one level above the leaf nodes), you can use keywords to retrieve the files you want.
* OTOH, I like TwonkyMedia's snappiness. It is very quick for regular operations. For example, I can fast forward a WMVHD (VC-1) stream to 120x quickly (by pressing the ff button repeatedly). For Tversity, the UI is not that responsive. Sometimes, I can push it to 30x and it will "hang" there trying to process the frames, and then come back much later. May be if I switch to a more powerful PC, the experience would be different.
For Tversity, MP4 files can be fast forwarded more quickly than WMVHD (both no transcoding). With transcoding turned on, fast forward can still work as long as the necessary frames have been converted.
* I also like TwonkyMedia's web admin features. I can change all the settings remotely. Tversity's web interface is only for media client access.
* Finally, Tversity sometimes refuses to start. Even when started, PS3 occasionally can't see it. TwonkyMedia has been very consistent in this aspect. It always shows up almost instantaenously.
A while ago, I moved all my media to the local HDD (when I moved my PS3 to the office and switched to a 60Gb). And some are still in my USB drives. I will now move them to the TeraStation again. Will be able to see how the PS3 fare with more media.
EDIT: I made a mistake in my description of TwonkyMedia in the last post. Basically, both Tversity and TwonkyMedia will filter the files according to the XMB media icons. i.e., if I am in the "video" icon, only video files will be shown even though the music and picture folders are visible.
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Been poking around Tversity even more. The dev team has a blog here: http://tversity.blogspot.com/
I tried their viewmy.tv service. It worked in a rather crude way. I was able to subscribe to the Internet channels on Vista and view most of them from PS3. Some of the channels don't work. The interface is still somewhat clunky for my taste, and requires too many dialog boxes to click through. The video looks too small (or too blocky when magnified) on my 720p monitor too. I may adjust the transcoding parameters in the future. But it's an interesting concept.
They are planning a UI upgrade in the near future. I don't quite like the current one (The Flash UI is a little awkward to use):
* http://bp3.blogger.com/_rpZPziWIQUY/R40SMpQujHI/AAAAAAAAABE/yYhF0GMdHF0/s400/guide_preview.jpg
* http://bp0.blogger.com/_rpZPziWIQUY/R40ST5QujII/AAAAAAAAABM/zm0Z0kkrugY/s400/status1_preview.jpg
Given a standard video that PS3 can play, I still prefer Twonky's simplicity, speed and reliability.
I tried their viewmy.tv service. It worked in a rather crude way. I was able to subscribe to the Internet channels on Vista and view most of them from PS3. Some of the channels don't work. The interface is still somewhat clunky for my taste, and requires too many dialog boxes to click through. The video looks too small (or too blocky when magnified) on my 720p monitor too. I may adjust the transcoding parameters in the future. But it's an interesting concept.
They are planning a UI upgrade in the near future. I don't quite like the current one (The Flash UI is a little awkward to use):
* http://bp3.blogger.com/_rpZPziWIQUY/R40SMpQujHI/AAAAAAAAABE/yYhF0GMdHF0/s400/guide_preview.jpg
* http://bp0.blogger.com/_rpZPziWIQUY/R40ST5QujII/AAAAAAAAABM/zm0Z0kkrugY/s400/status1_preview.jpg
Given a standard video that PS3 can play, I still prefer Twonky's simplicity, speed and reliability.
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No link alas, the stuttering wmv's in question are 80's music videos I made some time ago with Vegas Video, I think it was version 4 or 5. It may very well be a ps3 firmware issue since they stutter even when copied to the ps3's local hdd and played from there.
From your summaries, is sounds like TwonkyMedia might be worth a try. I just have to stomach the kooky install process
Looking at the Tversity support forum: http://forums.tversity.com/viewtopic.php?t=10178&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0... many think that firmware 2.20 introduced the new bug. It happened before in an earlier firmware version when a movie has excessive reference B-frames. I certainly hope that Sony can fix this for 2.30 (due in about a week's time).
I actually like Tversity because I am a sucker for innovation, but TwonkyMedia gave me less problem and does everything I need. I don't convert videos anymore because I find the process too time consuming and unfruitful. I look forward to the bundling of SD videos on Blu-ray very much.
For TwonkyMedia, there is a 30 day trial period.
I will try WMP 11 again after my stress test with TwonkyMedia and Tversity. The last time I tested, it was more flakey than Tversity.
EDIT: Tversity caches transcoded videos in a separate directory. I will attempt to map that directory to the TwonkyMedia library. That way, I can use Tversity as an on-demand transcoder, and TwonkyMedia as my main DLNA server.
I actually like Tversity because I am a sucker for innovation, but TwonkyMedia gave me less problem and does everything I need. I don't convert videos anymore because I find the process too time consuming and unfruitful. I look forward to the bundling of SD videos on Blu-ray very much.
For TwonkyMedia, there is a 30 day trial period.
I will try WMP 11 again after my stress test with TwonkyMedia and Tversity. The last time I tested, it was more flakey than Tversity.
EDIT: Tversity caches transcoded videos in a separate directory. I will attempt to map that directory to the TwonkyMedia library. That way, I can use Tversity as an on-demand transcoder, and TwonkyMedia as my main DLNA server.
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I bit the bullet and installed TwonkyMedia onto the Dlink 323. It's night and day compared to the standard media server software that comes with the raid drive! Or to be more to the point, the built in media server software is junk in comparison.
Two of my previous issues have been fixed. The first was the nested directory count limit. I can now see all our photos even if they are nested many directories deep. The other was speed, Twonky is far faster. It's still of course not as fast as a pc directly accessing the raid box, but for photos and music I'd say it's totally usable now. The other neat thing with Twonky is that it lets you setup search criteria. So for music, i can search by Artist, Album, Folder, etc, and its all configurable. The standard dlink software didn't give this option as far as I know.
I briefly played with videos. Those wmv's that stuttered of course still do, but I'm able to fast forward in large mpg video files now. It doesn't ff as fast as it does if the file was right on the ps3's hdd, but it's 'ok'. I believe Twonky was scanning my drives for data while I was trying out videos so that might have affected it as well.
EDIT: I played with videos some more and found a new problem alas Anytime the 10x, 30x or 120x ff modes are used on large files, hitting play will just freeze the video. The only way to resume playback is to exit out, and then play it again to resume from where it last left off. I guess video support still needs some work. Photos and music seem to work just fine though.
From what I see so far Twonky has made dlna workable, so I went ahead and bought it. Thanks for the legwork patsu, I probably would have never bothered to try it if it wasn't for your tests! One last question. I had to first install telnet software onto the dlink before I could install Twonky. I presume this software can be removed now without affecting the media server functionality?
Two of my previous issues have been fixed. The first was the nested directory count limit. I can now see all our photos even if they are nested many directories deep. The other was speed, Twonky is far faster. It's still of course not as fast as a pc directly accessing the raid box, but for photos and music I'd say it's totally usable now. The other neat thing with Twonky is that it lets you setup search criteria. So for music, i can search by Artist, Album, Folder, etc, and its all configurable. The standard dlink software didn't give this option as far as I know.
I briefly played with videos. Those wmv's that stuttered of course still do, but I'm able to fast forward in large mpg video files now. It doesn't ff as fast as it does if the file was right on the ps3's hdd, but it's 'ok'. I believe Twonky was scanning my drives for data while I was trying out videos so that might have affected it as well.
EDIT: I played with videos some more and found a new problem alas
Anytime the 10x, 30x or 120x ff modes are used on large files, hitting play will just freeze the video. The only way to resume playback is to exit out, and then play it again to resume from where it last left off. I guess video support still needs some work. Photos and music seem to work just fine though.From what I see so far Twonky has made dlna workable, so I went ahead and bought it. Thanks for the legwork patsu, I probably would have never bothered to try it if it wasn't for your tests! One last question. I had to first install telnet software onto the dlink before I could install Twonky. I presume this software can be removed now without affecting the media server functionality?
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EDIT: I played with videos some more and found a new problem alas
joker454, how large are the files for the problem to occur ? I'm going to keep one to know if Sony/TwonkyMedia fixes it in the future.
Yeah... it can be turned off now (Don't remove it because you'll likely need it again for future upgrade).
I have seen a few good comments about MediaTomb too. I will try it someday but not in the immediate future.
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Here's MediaTomb (www.mediatomb.cc) for those who are interested.
DLNA should publish conformance specs publicly. Usability factors like max. number of levels, speed of file listing, ... should be specified. It will help to focus the developers' attention and also ensure minimal satisfaction. In the long run, people will have more trust and faith in DLNA devices.
EDIT: I didn't know MediaTomb runs on Mac OSX. I will try to sneak in some basic test before stress-testing all of them. IMHO, the biggest appeal of MediaTomb is its open source approach.
DLNA should publish conformance specs publicly. Usability factors like max. number of levels, speed of file listing, ... should be specified. It will help to focus the developers' attention and also ensure minimal satisfaction. In the long run, people will have more trust and faith in DLNA devices.
EDIT: I didn't know MediaTomb runs on Mac OSX. I will try to sneak in some basic test before stress-testing all of them. IMHO, the biggest appeal of MediaTomb is its open source approach.
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It's a ~4gb file, avc, about 5mbps. I installed the pc version of Twonky and messed with that as well. I timed playback of this same video file under three different circumstances:
1) Directly on the PS3's hdd
- ff 120x works full speed, takes about 0.5 to 2.5 seconds to resume playback after a 120x ff.
2) File on Dlink raid drive, Twonky running on a e6600 core2duo pc
- ff 120x works a bit slower, takes about 3 to 5 seconds to resume playing after a 120x ff
3) File on Dlink raid drive, Twonky running on the same raid drive
- ff 120x works slower still, varies between 15 and 30 seconds to resume playback after a 120x ff
So it doesn't really freeze after a 120x ff, it just takes some patience and it eventually resumes. I tried using Windows Media Player 11 as well, but could never get it to work with the PS3 (it would never see any files).
I'm using it too since it comes with Debian.
It does the job, but the default configuration does not track directory changes and I have to remove the folder from web server, then readd it in order to list new files.
Obviously that's a quick fix but kinda stupid for media server, so I'm wondering if that's not really the server being stupid.
I'm using it too since it comes with Debian.
It does the job, but the default configuration does not track directory changes and I have to remove the folder from web server, then readd it in order to list new files.
Obviously that's a quick fix but kinda stupid for media server, so I'm wondering if that's not really the server being stupid.
I configured mediatomb via the webui to "watch" changes to shared directories(INotify). Works ok at least for me. I also needed to manually change configuration file to make sharing avi-files to ps3 work.
Thanks.
Avi works, but wmv didn't when PS3 started supporting it. Does it work now? (This is most likely firmware question, rather than DLNA)
I think it (Fink) can be compiled from source, no? I'm pretty sure I built it on my kids' iMac a month or two ago only to find native ports of all the Tux educational games so I didn't need it anyway. But I know I got it running...
