Andrew House admits the PS4 Pro is a reaction to PC migration

[Jay]

A 2019 PS5 could be in the same "ecossystem" by having backwards compatibility and running PS4 games at PS4 Pro specs. It's just that the PS4/Pro wouldn't be forward-compatible with PS5 games, which makes sense because in 2019 the platform will be 6 years old.

That's my point,ps5 would be backward compatible, but the ps4p wouldn't be forward, there by ps4 would have had 6 years, but the ps4p would only be 3.
The platform as a whole would be 6 years long, but the ps4p is a mid gen machine, not just a slim or refresh.
When you buy a slim/refresh, you know that it's lasting as long as when the original came out.

 

[Jay]

with the knowledge of Sony leaks, they probably adjusted their time schedule, as in same delivery date "2017-2018" but they had to advance their announcement- E3.

The only thing that probably changed with the knowledge of the Sony leaks was the E3 conference and willingness to put scorpio out there. I doubt it made them fundamentally change anything else.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

That's my point,ps5 would be backward compatible, but the ps4p wouldn't be forward, there by ps4 would have had 6 years, but the ps4p would only be 3.
The platform as a whole would be 6 years long, but the ps4p is a mid gen machine, not just a slim or refresh.
When you buy a slim/refresh, you know that it's lasting as long as when the original came out.

Yes, I was just agreeing with the "no reason to revolt" part. With the name, price and games library, Sony is being clear enough that the Pro is still just a PS4.
Even if the Pro was released in late 2017 I don't think there would be revolt.
Though I do agree that late 2016 is a lot more balanced, even if they end up losing performance to the Scorpio by a whole 45% during 2 years.

 

[milk]

The PS4P is a headscratcher. It doesn't quite do 4K, it's released when they are already ahead of Xbox in both sales and processor speed, and they are coming out with the PSVR at almost the same time. Strategically, it seems that it would have been better to release 2017 and have similar specs to Scorpio. Obviously, Sony didn't know Scorpio was going to happen when they developed PS4P, but strategically, it seems 2017 just is better.

My thoughts too. The PS4k leak made sense to me as a way for sony to introduce a competitive UHDbluray player inbthe market, ala ps3, but without the UHD drive, I was left puzzled.
Knowing scorpio is comming out next year though, its much better to have a 4Tflops Neo out now than latter. Making a 6Tflops for 2017 migh also not have been as straight foward engineering-wise as the lazy neo up-spec was. So, by lauching a half-assed/cheap mid gen refresh early, they skipped entering another expensive head-to-head horsepower competition with MS.
With ps4 being so ahead though, I wonder if a PRO was needed at all.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well a head-to-head would have still gone in Sony's favour because they have the momentum. I just don't see it as worth it to them, especially if there's a generation break and they can't guarantee those PS4P buyers will be able to play their games on PS5 (which should happen, but it's probably less a certainty with PS than XB). And/or they don't want to delay PS5. Because if XB is rockin' Scorpio in 2019/2020 and PS5 comes out 2019, it could certainly trump XB sales in a big way long term.

 

[iroboto]

Whatever it is, this title experimentally correct. Some of my dedicated PS4 friends are upgrading to Pro. No one I know is diving from nothing to Pro though.

There is some disappointment for the lack of UHD, they were hoping for hardware to max their setup all in one.

I asked about whether they would consider the competitions offering but they were unsure/against it. They didn't feel the need for a second console.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[goonergaz]

Anecdotal I know, but yesterday I was chatting in the office about getting the pro and another colleague said he was saving for a PS4 'what's this pro you're talking about?'. Anyway, I didn't big it up - just said it was largely for 4k HDR TV owners but hopefully 1080p owners will get some improvements - I also mentioned CPU upgrade @ ~30% and double GPU. This morning he's said he's now saving for the Pro after checking things online.

FTR (and I did say this before) I think MS & Sony are now looking to release consoles out of sync, 2017 Scorpio, 2019 PS5, 2020 Scorpio+, 2022 PS5+ etc - this gives then both 'the worlds most powerful console' bragging rights for a couple years.

 

[MrFox]

At least anyone buying a PS4 to get into VR will definitely get the Pro. While they are not really considering xbox, they are certainly considering PC. If you read up on VR forums, the biggest hesitation comes from wanting more power for VR, so the Pro is definitely an argument for making them chose PSVR. It's not the only thing in the decision tree, but it's an important one for many.

Sony's sales target was raised from 17 million to 20 million PS4 for the fiscal year (to march 2017). If they reach anywhere near this number, there's no doubt it was a good move.

 

[goonergaz]

PSVR + Pro @ £700 is a pretty good entry IMHO

 

[trainplane]

Not sure if people are misreading other people's posts or what. Sony and MS did not know about each other's plans when they developed Neo and Scorpio. Who is claiming that?

The revolt remark was in reference to if Sony (or MS even) try to put out a machine two years apart. That is why a PS5 is feasible in 2019, if they can get a 7nm console SOC by then, if the PS4P is out 2016 but doesn't make sense if the PS4P is out 2017. If sales of PS4P prove decent, Sony has confidence that a 3 year hardware cadence will work.

And whether PS5 is cross compatible with PS4P or not, they won't throw PS4P under the bus. They will either get cross-compatible software or they will get software like PS3-PS4, that is same title, different development sku. Sony won't cut off PS4P software in 2019, at least I don't think so.

 

[iroboto]

Not sure if people are misreading other people's posts or what. Sony and MS did not know about each other's plans when they developed Neo and Scorpio. Who is claiming that?

The revolt remark was in reference to if Sony (or MS even) try to put out a machine two years apart. That is why a PS5 is feasible in 2019, if they can get a 7nm console SOC by then, if the PS4P is out 2016 but doesn't make sense if the PS4P is out 2017. If sales of PS4P prove decent, Sony has confidence that a 3 year hardware cadence will work.

And whether PS5 is cross compatible with PS4P or not, they won't throw PS4P under the bus. They will either get cross-compatible software or they will get software like PS3-PS4, that is same title, different development sku. Sony won't cut off PS4P software in 2019, at least I don't think so.

There was no misinterpretation, it's just that the logical flow of events, some people feel like that's how it happened. Even though, companies like MS and Sony, where R&D is a big part of their budget, they need a lot of funding and gating to build a project, resources, and contracts; it's highly improbable that they built a device reactionary to the opponents, there just isn't enough time.

That being said, ti's extremely challenging to read your message if you don't quote other people's messages. I had to scan back up 4-5 messages to see whom you were referring to.

 

[AlNom]

That being said, ti's extremely challenging to read your message if you don't quote other people's messages. I had to scan back up 4-5 messages to see whom you were referring to.

Caught between moving posts to this thread I think.

 

[iroboto]

Well of course, but at a cost - and we're still seeing 900p vs 1080p (Deus Ex) and even 900p vs 720p (Mirrors Edge). For anything engines pushing the hardware it's fairly normal to expect this kind of difference and if there's a match then a clear performance advantage. I understand the initital issue was the comment of 720p vs 1080p - I get that, but to suggest the gap has closed is just as wrong a statement.

Not sure if @Arwen has that a database of resolutions for both consoles and titles. But if he also included release dates, we could do a Flops/Pixel over time graph and see visually if the gap closes. Though, likely after the 720/1080p outliers are gone, I suspect there is a 33% space between the two lines if we were to draw this.

Back to the OT, I don't see how the console stops people from going to PC. I've got a beefy PC and I still enjoy the console experience as DSoup has made mention many times. I guess now that my PC is going to soon become a couch gaming PC, perhaps my view of this will change, but there is something special about gaming on big screen entertainment devices. Big speakers, big screen, comfy couch, everyone can watch etc. I only play on PC for hardcore games, where I'm purposely trying to increase my FPS to over 100 because it serves as some sort of competitive advantage. Otherwise I really do enjoy the environment of living room entertainment much more than this computer chair, where my arms are up over the desk.

 

[goonergaz]

Back to the OT, I don't see how the console stops people from going to PC. I've got a beefy PC and I still enjoy the console experience as DSoup has made mention many times. I guess now that my PC is going to soon become a couch gaming PC, perhaps my view of this will change, but there is something special about gaming on big screen entertainment devices. Big speakers, big screen, comfy couch, everyone can watch etc. I only play on PC for hardcore games, where I'm purposely trying to increase my FPS to over 100 because it serves as some sort of competitive advantage. Otherwise I really do enjoy the environment of living room entertainment much more than this computer chair, where my arms are up over the desk.

As I said previously (and of course this may be just me) - but late in the console life the difference to PC is day and night, no longer something I'd accept. I don't want to migrate to PC, it's a pain compared to console for several reasons like the technical issues, less cohesive experience, friends list, trophies and having to 'run' 2 systems being things that irk me. The Pro means my console experience should be less of a gap on PCs, and something more 'managable'.

Of course we won't know until 18 mths/couple years time if the Pro 'worked' for me - but I think it will based on what's been shown. I expect that later in this gen the difference PS4 to Pro will get bigger, it is all a 'risk' but we shall see, and eitehr way i the mean-time I will enjoy the best console experience available. (for at least one year!)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How will a £400 PC compare to a £400 Pro in performance?That's one for DF!

 

[goonergaz]

Again though, as you said - you can take your titles with you to Pro

 

[pjbliverpool]

How will a £400 PC compare to a £400 Pro in performance?That's one for DF!

Personally I think it's a more interesting question to ask how much would a PC of at least equal performance cost. I'm guessing around £600 with Windows. That's assuming an RX480, and FX 6300 and 16GB RAM so you're getting a bit more performance there but that's just about the closest comparison possible. You're not going to get remotely close at £400, even without an OS.

 

[Arwin]

PC's here are much more expensive still. But of course we'd also have to assume that the bottleneck is GPU most of the time - when it is CPU (as seemingly in a lot of racing games, though I keep thinking that's just bad design), then the Pro isn't going to help that much unless the code is rewritten to make more of the extra CUs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Personally I think it's a more interesting question to ask how much would a PC of at least equal performance cost. I'm guessing around £600 with Windows. That's assuming an RX480, and FX 6300 and 16GB RAM so you're getting a bit more performance there but that's just about the closest comparison possible. You're not going to get remotely close at £400, even without an OS.

Probably. At the same time, we need to consider what's on screen, as if 4Pro isn't pushing visuals, a lower spec PC might get closer. And similarly, what difference is the upscale tech in PS4 Pro going to make? Can it make 4Pro punch above its weight in IQ?

 

[pjbliverpool]

And similarly, what difference is the upscale tech in PS4 Pro going to make? Can it make 4Pro punch above its weight in IQ?

That's a good question, I'll be disappointed if a similar technology isn't made available on the PC. From what I'm hearing there's no reason why custom hardware is required for checkerboard rendering and while full native res might be preferable, I'd be happy to give it a go since even on my 1070, native 4k isn't something I can push at 60fps in many modern games at max serttings. I understand it can look better than native 2560x1440 but then again if it renders using 2x the base pixels as 1080p then it's rendering 12.5% more pixels than 2560x1440 as well so I'd certainly hope it does look better.