Amstrong doping allegations
- Thread starter Druga Runda
- Start date
Look im amongst the first to believe most cyclists are on the epo diet.
Otoh, the Equipe's trash journalism might convince people like Patrick, but it most certainly wouldn't convince a court of law, much less another scientist. At least not with what we have now.
A six year old sample mysteriously turns up and has Armstrong numerals on the cover (the bit about looking up numbers for the lab is obviously some type of joke, this guy has been tested 5 times more than anyone else has, not to mention these sorts of tests bears a unique stamp on a person. I could likely match a person out of a crowd with one..)
So they are basically telling us to believe that a group of proffessional chemists, who have been testing these cyclists daily for years, happen to conveniently forget which numeral/blood comp their chief target after seven years possesses. And they also want us to believe that these old 'prime target' samples haven't been tested hundreds of times over, with every single new test available?
Come on, it stretches credulity.
ATM yet another independant probe of chemists are probably furiously retesting every single one of Armstrongs urine samples all the way back to his teenage years, and wondering why there is only hit registering.
Otoh, the Equipe's trash journalism might convince people like Patrick, but it most certainly wouldn't convince a court of law, much less another scientist. At least not with what we have now.
A six year old sample mysteriously turns up and has Armstrong numerals on the cover (the bit about looking up numbers for the lab is obviously some type of joke, this guy has been tested 5 times more than anyone else has, not to mention these sorts of tests bears a unique stamp on a person. I could likely match a person out of a crowd with one..)
So they are basically telling us to believe that a group of proffessional chemists, who have been testing these cyclists daily for years, happen to conveniently forget which numeral/blood comp their chief target after seven years possesses. And they also want us to believe that these old 'prime target' samples haven't been tested hundreds of times over, with every single new test available?
Come on, it stretches credulity.
ATM yet another independant probe of chemists are probably furiously retesting every single one of Armstrongs urine samples all the way back to his teenage years, and wondering why there is only hit registering.
Fred you know nothing about L'Equipe it seems. It is not a tabloid and it is one of the first european newspaper. We can make a bet: I bet Armstrong will never go to trial against them claiming that theses accusations are false. He may try to go in court on other parts but I bet not on the main one 
You are confusing nationalism with sport reality. By the way, can you give the name of a good newsparer that made a real research on the Balco affair and the sportsmen and women involved ?
You are confusing nationalism with sport reality. By the way, can you give the name of a good newsparer that made a real research on the Balco affair and the sportsmen and women involved ?
however what Joe posted is something worth noting, and as I said earlier a test from 99!?! really... couldn't they dig up something from 2004 or 2005 when the dude was old and should have finally lost the damn race... and those 1999 tests - they were uncertain in the beginning at the labs of "who it was" until the newspaper (which has a track record of not liking Amstrong all along) makes the connection
Personally I do not care whether the paper is a broadsheet and has fine other sections, but IMO some editor in the sports section (or higher up) is bent on getting Amstrong and well having a "best selling" story for a few weeks. How credible it might be is another question.
Not to mention that the tests cannot be really positive especially after 6 years??? and one would think if this drug was "undetectable" in 1999 Amstrong would continue to use if he was bent on winning TDF again. I assume if it had any positive impact Amstrong would languish in 2001 without something he used to boost his capability... (as in he stopped using it because he somehow knew the tests fro EPO became available that year)
This is all besides the points that Joe raised.
However the dodgy labs results can certainly be used to put a "stain" on a brilliant achievement and in that repect that editor certainly succeeded to do what he was looking for.
:|
Personally I do not care whether the paper is a broadsheet and has fine other sections, but IMO some editor in the sports section (or higher up) is bent on getting Amstrong and well having a "best selling" story for a few weeks. How credible it might be is another question.
Not to mention that the tests cannot be really positive especially after 6 years??? and one would think if this drug was "undetectable" in 1999 Amstrong would continue to use if he was bent on winning TDF again. I assume if it had any positive impact Amstrong would languish in 2001 without something he used to boost his capability... (as in he stopped using it because he somehow knew the tests fro EPO became available that year)
This is all besides the points that Joe raised.
However the dodgy labs results can certainly be used to put a "stain" on a brilliant achievement and in that repect that editor certainly succeeded to do what he was looking for.
:|
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PatrickL, I am French. I grew up reading L'Equipe. They've always been after Armstrong. In fact, they love going after cyclists in general, pretty much ever since the whole Virenque scandal, when it became obvious the nations favorite player was full of crap. You probably remember the constant Canal+ puppet shows with Virenque and Amstrong. L'equipe is no different in that regard. Then ever since Bush got into office, they pretty much let loose on LA. It was always rather bizarre, but its true.
Now all of a sudden I'm getting 20 emails by crazed french friends of mine telling me 'I told you so'.
Its completely irresponsible and ridiculous, L'equippe's news team are a bunch of raving cretins for publishing a story with this state of research. The only thing I find even more bizarre, is no one is bothering to call it for what it is. Namely complete hearsay.
Now all of a sudden I'm getting 20 emails by crazed french friends of mine telling me 'I told you so'.
Its completely irresponsible and ridiculous, L'equippe's news team are a bunch of raving cretins for publishing a story with this state of research. The only thing I find even more bizarre, is no one is bothering to call it for what it is. Namely complete hearsay.
Well you should now so that they were spot on about drugs. The list of cyclists under some drug is endless and if you have read the newspaper tuesday you know they provided the proofs for all points.
About Virenque and the Guignols (for non french The guignols is a very popular satiric puppets show) it was very entertaining but noone waslooking at the show as it was journalism
About Virenque and the Guignols (for non french The guignols is a very popular satiric puppets show) it was very entertaining but noone waslooking at the show as it was journalism
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SPORT/08/26/armstrong.lkl/
here is a bit more
amongst other points, the sensationalist journalism really pisses me off under normal circumstances, however this "strawman" journalism used to ruin someones great success is really despicable.
here is a bit more
amongst other points, the sensationalist journalism really pisses me off under normal circumstances, however this "strawman" journalism used to ruin someones great success is really despicable.
You seem to fall easily for tricks
In 1999 they collected thousands of samples. It was never said they tested ALL the samples they had !
As I said before, the laboratory that made theses tests was doing it for research only. They were not after anyone. So they tested a few hundreds and had positive results. It is AFTER theses results that L'Equipe made the work to link theses samples and the names.
I mean i does not care of Armstrong but some of theses sentences are laughable like the one about london 2012. Seriously, I don't know how are the schools in his area but i doubt any french is thinking that London is in the USA
In 1999 they collected thousands of samples. It was never said they tested ALL the samples they had !
As I said before, the laboratory that made theses tests was doing it for research only. They were not after anyone. So they tested a few hundreds and had positive results. It is AFTER theses results that L'Equipe made the work to link theses samples and the names.
I mean i does not care of Armstrong but some of theses sentences are laughable like the one about london 2012
. Seriously, I don't know how are the schools in his area but i doubt any french is thinking that London is in the USA however strawman point is still there, they dig trough the research out of 1999 to "prove their point" however the man has won another 6 TDF wins since and 5 since the tests for the drug became available. And this is research after all how can you confirm the perfect preservation of the samples and that they have not been tampered with over the time...
perhaps they want to persuade him to come back next year as well and win again to prove the point. I'd love if that actually happened...
perhaps they want to persuade him to come back next year as well and win again
to prove the point. I'd love if that actually happened...at least his fellow cyclists are not too keen to jump on the "blame" bandwagon and they should know how the system works...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/4177952.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/4177952.stm
Merckx comes to Armstrong defence
Five-time Tour de France winner Eddy Merckx says he is taking Lance Armstrong's side in the row over doping claims made by L'Equipe