AMD RV770 refresh -> RV790

[neliz]

If RV790 is simply "overclocked RV770" then what are the chances it'll run cooler, the fan will be quieter and it'll consume less power at idle?

Jawed

Well, I think I showed in another thread I have an immensely redesigned "costdown" 4850 that does the first of the two with ease. It also has a restructured power grid, cleaner, more stable and this was still a board designed by AMD. It all depends on how far AMD is willing to underclock, remember the 4850's have a BIOS that runs at 160Mhz or so, stable, I think the only factor in it is the GDDR5 memory that needs the 4870 to run at certain speeds as not to corrupt communications.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If RV790 is simply "overclocked RV770" then what are the chances it'll run cooler, the fan will be quieter and it'll consume less power at idle?

Jawed

I believe another thread mentioned that there was a redesigned cooler for the Rv790.

Didn't mention whether it is a reduced cost cooler due to the chip running cooler.

Or if it's a more efficient cooler to deal with a hotter running chip.

Regards,
SB

 

[AlexV]

it'll consume less power at idle?

Indeed, what are the chances of that happening?

 

[ferro]

Indeed, what are the chances of that happening?

All they need to do is "fix" or add the functionality to make use of the various GDDR5 power saving methods. Apparently that is where the idle-power issues lie of the 4870 based cards.

 

[Ailuros]

Heh, I don't think his insistence broke any laws. Between the GT212 cancellation and RV790 speed bump rumours it looks like H109 is gonna be sloooooooooooow. No matter how fancy RV740 turns out to be we probably still won't be getting anything new.

What kind of miracles were we really expecting in the end from any GT212 or hypothetical RV790@40nm after all?

Look at CJ's last post above; where do you prefer the concentration to be after all when it comes to 40nm? A higher performing refresh or a new technology generation which has far better chances for essential performance increases? And before you say both, remember I have the current financial crysis in mind

 

[neliz]

All they need to do is "fix" or add the functionality to make use of the various GDDR5 power saving methods. Apparently that is where the idle-power issues lie of the 4870 based cards.

"Idle power Issues" are relative as an 4870's power characteristics are equal to a GTx260 and it runs cooler. From a consumer point of view you pay the power for the performance needed. You even get a card that's cooler to boot.

 

[homerdog]

"Idle power Issues" are relative as an 4870's power characteristics are equal to a GTx260 and it runs cooler. From a consumer point of view you pay the power for the performance needed. You even get a card that's cooler to boot.

I was under the impression the HD4870 was quite a bit more power hungry than the GTX260.
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/17...260_sonic_216sp_55nm_graphics_card/index.html
http://techreport.com/articles.x/16504/10
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Inno3D/iChill_GTX_260/27.html

Although this review shows the 4870 being almost equal...
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTYyNiw5LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

It seems many sites haven't retested their 4870s for power consumption in a while.

 

[neliz]

I was under the impression the HD4870 was quite a bit more power hungry than the GTX260.

Although this review shows the 4870 being almost equal...
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTYyNiw5LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

It seems many sites haven't retested their 4870s for power consumption in a while.

indeed. power consumption in some of the gts250 reviews is way off too. heck one of the reviews even used 4870 power numbers for the 4850 and compared the gts against that. Did the reviewers become lazy or scared?

 

[trinibwoy]

What kind of miracles were we really expecting in the end from any GT212 or hypothetical RV790@40nm after all?

Look at CJ's last post above; where do you prefer the concentration to be after all when it comes to 40nm? A higher performing refresh or a new technology generation which has far better chances for essential performance increases? And before you say both, remember I have the current financial crysis in mind

Wasn't expecting miracles but was hoping for a peek at 40nm. Just commenting on how boring the next few months look. In terms of refreshes I think what AMD is doing with RV740 is pretty reasonable although it would've been nice if RV790 was 40nm too. Nvidia on the other hand........

 

[eastmen]

Wasn't expecting miracles but was hoping for a peek at 40nm. Just commenting on how boring the next few months look. In terms of refreshes I think what AMD is doing with RV740 is pretty reasonable although it would've been nice if RV790 was 40nm too. Nvidia on the other hand........

Both companys need to be carefull or they might pull a geforce 3. No one wants to see new high end cards that are slower than the ones that came before it. Why invest in a $400 dx 11 card when a RV790 is faster at a lower price. Sure it doesn't have dx 11 but by the time dx 11 software is out there will be much faster cards than the dx 11 first gen stuff. its what happened with the geforce 3. At launch the geforce 2 ultra was faster and by the time the dx 8 games arrived we had geforce 3 ti's and even geforce 4s out in the wild.

 

[AlexV]

Both companys need to be carefull or they might pull a geforce 3. No one wants to see new high end cards that are slower than the ones that came before it. Why invest in a $400 dx 11 card when a RV790 is faster at a lower price. Sure it doesn't have dx 11 but by the time dx 11 software is out there will be much faster cards than the dx 11 first gen stuff. its what happened with the geforce 3. At launch the geforce 2 ultra was faster and by the time the dx 8 games arrived we had geforce 3 ti's and even geforce 4s out in the wild.

Ugh, perhaps my memory is deceiving me, but the GF2 Ultra was faster than the GF3 in only a handful of scenarios, none of which was all that interesting (16-bit stuff, no AA etc.).

 

[ChrisRay]

Anything that didn't use Anti aliasing and just basic T&L. Of course back then AA was still a pretty niche feature.

 

[rjc]

vr-zone had some pricing info for the april 6 launch:
RV790XT $299
RV790Pro $199
RV740XT $129
RV740Pro $99

There's quite a gap between the 2 chips suggesting either still quite some performance difference or they really don't want to sell many of the RV790(ala GTX285, GTX295 ). I guess they must have a reasonable amount of RV770 inventory for the $70 interval, also probably the RV730 stock for all the price points below $99.

 

[neliz]

as already discussed, the 4870 will stay on the market to fight gts250 $149 for 512 and $179 for 1gb.

 

[Jawed]

$299 for a supposed 950MHz card that "equals" GTX285?

When desktop RV740 arrives, a version kitted out with 1GB of RAM should have no trouble competing with GTS250. I don't see any reason for RV770 to continue after that.

Jawed

 

[Lukfi]

When desktop RV740 arrives, a version kitted out with 1GB of RAM should have no trouble competing with GTS250. I don't see any reason for RV770 to continue after that.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Where 512 MB is a painful limit for G92, RV770 can still make do with the same amount, mostly. 512 MB is insufficient mainly in high-def with AA, probably not typical scenarios for $100-150 cards.
What I'm saying is, no way the RV740 can beat the GTS 250 just by adding more memory to it. Giving it a better cooler and clocking it higher, though...

 

[Jawed]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Where 512 MB is a painful limit for G92, RV770 can still make do with the same amount, mostly.

I agree, mostly.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16504/4

What I'm saying is, no way the RV740 can beat the GTS 250 just by adding more memory to it. Giving it a better cooler and clocking it higher, though...

When 1fps at ~25fps is counted as a win for GTS250, "but the GTS 250 produces higher frame rates at four megapixels", is all the motivation required it seems

HD4870-512MB is also seriously hampered on that page in comparison with the 1GB version.

---

It seems funny to me that some "console ports", things like Lost Planet and Far Cry 2 run "nicely" on XB360 but really hurt ATI in comparison with NVidia in the PC space. Would that be the "free" fillrate and blending on Xenos RBE, due to EDRAM, coming back to bite ATI's PC RBE?

Jawed

 

[Lukfi]

HD4870-512MB is also seriously hampered on that page in comparison with the 1GB version.

Far Cry 2 is one of the games where there's a difference, then there are many others where there is zero to minimal benefit from 1 GB memory on the Radeon.

It seems funny to me that some "console ports", things like Lost Planet and Far Cry 2 run "nicely" on XB360 but really hurt ATI in comparison with NVidia in the PC space. Would that be the "free" fillrate and blending on Xenos RBE, due to EDRAM, coming back to bite ATI's PC RBE?

Might be. Seems to me there is a ratio of total chip performance vs. RBE performance which is still growing as GDDR5 get more common. RV740 has 2 RBE blocks like the RV730, but more shaders and thus more power in general.

 

[Jawed]

RV740 has 2 RBE blocks like the RV730, but more shaders and thus more power in general.

Do you have definite info that RV740 has 8 colour and 32 Z fillrate per clock?

Jawed

 

[Ailuros]

Wasn't expecting miracles but was hoping for a peek at 40nm. Just commenting on how boring the next few months look. In terms of refreshes I think what AMD is doing with RV740 is pretty reasonable although it would've been nice if RV790 was 40nm too. Nvidia on the other hand........

NVIDIA what? GT21x chips at 40nm have supposedly had their final tape out already. Nothing above mainstream though from both IHVs.

Is that where you parachute into wall street in a vaguely homoerotic rubber suit to do bad things to over-testosteroned alpha males.

That obvious joke is lacking wit. On a more serious note, if any IHV has to take any risks with X manufacturing process I'd personally prefer them to invest in more potential projects then any pityful refresh of a refresh, especially when they have to be way more careful than before when it comes to resources.