AMD: Navi Speculation, Rumours and Discussion [2019]

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Kaotik, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,430
    New slide from AMD: is the 5700X really faster than the RTX 2070? It's barely 17% faster than a 1070 in 3 major titles! At this point it would be lucky if it's actually equal to the 2070.

    [​IMG]
     
    del42sa and pharma like this.
  2. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,884
    Likes Received:
    1,753
    Where is this slide from ?
     
  3. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,485
    Likes Received:
    897
    It's hard to interpret these results, since the CPUs are different.
     
    Kyyla and iMacmatician like this.
  4. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,884
    Likes Received:
    1,753
    This, plus the slide looks fake/strange? It's clearly not from the from the "AMD: Next Horizon Of Gaming Tech Day" slide deck as it says "The Next Generation Of Compute" and features the old oragne/black template. What the hell does the Multi-Thread graph represent and why is it offset relative to the other? Alien Isolation? Hitman 1 ? Rise of the Tomb Raider ??? Why benchmark 3/4 years old games when the most recent genuine slide deck (Next Horizon) contains none of them? :neutral:

    [​IMG]
     
    #904 Ike Turner, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    SimBy and Lightman like this.
  5. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,430
    I understand the logic, but it's not. It's leaked from a R7 3700X promo material, the leaker is well known and has leaked many things before.

     
    pharma likes this.
  6. DDH

    DDH

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0

    That doesn't mean it's not a fabrication. Comparing against 3 year old hardware in 3 year old games and producing a result which can only be described as laughable. Doesn't stand to reason

    Why doesn't the Multi Thread column line up with the rest and also "The most and fastest connectivity"
     
  7. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    india
    Can AMD do 3 shader engines and 96ROPs similar to nvidia's biggest chips or they still have to go for 4SEs and be content with 64ROPs since 128 would be too much? Any plans on doing a Vega vs. Polaris clockspeed jump with new Navi cards on same process?

    3 major titles from 3 years ago?

    Looks like RDNA requires driver optimizations like GCN did at launch, Navi cards might end up looking even better by the time they release, at least compared to Pascal.
     
  8. snarfbot

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    177
    so do devs have to target a 32 wide wave or is this something that gets decided automatically by the compiler or something?

    and further and this may sound silly but as a layman who doesnt really understand it all that much, at what point does this sort of thing happen, are shaders compiled and shipped as a binary or are they compiled on start up or per frame or what?
     
  9. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,430
    The rest of the titles don't have a stellar fps uplift over the 1070 either, except Warhammer 2 maybe.
    Looks like it, most of these titles are CPU limited, a usual weak point in AMD's driver.
    Once more IT IS NOT a fabrication. No amount of creativity could conjure 3 slides like this (including the box art). You will see once the launch happens.
     
    #909 DavidGraham, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    pharma likes this.
  10. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,098
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    A new set of LLVM changes reference GFX1011 and GFX1012 variants of the ISA. These add support for the dot product instructions introduced with Vega 20 (hasdot1insts, hasdot2insts) as well as an additional set (hasdot5insts,hasdot6insts).
    The general feature flags appear consistent with GFX1010, although GFX1011 is missing a bug for LDS usage during workgroup processing mode. That might be a bug fix in a newer derivative, or alternately there's a difference in workgroup mode support.

    https://github.com/llvm-mirror/llvm...00adaf0#diff-ad4812397731e1d4ff6992207b4d38fa
     
    Lightman and BRiT like this.
  11. Ext3h

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    294
    It "depends". Usually, you ship them either as intermediate code (SPIR-V or D3D shader objects), or you ship them in source code. Except for GLSL source code passed to OpenGL API, that means there are in total two compilation passes, one to vendor independent, API specific intermediate representation, and then inside the driver once again into hardware specific assembly.

    Since Vulkan / DX12, you can also ship a shader cache, which contains the native representation for a specific platforms, which can save the second compilation step. In older APIs, that cache is internal driver implementation detail.
    Not exposed explicitly. To start with, it only makes a difference when explicitly writing a compute shader with a specified workgroup size. For all non-compute, it's an invisible implementation detail.
    For compute you choose explicitly the size of the workgroup (total number of threads), but what wave size is then used to provide the requested workgroup size is once again driver internal implementation detail.
     
    snarfbot likes this.
  12. JoeJ

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    473
    Shaders are shipped as bytecode and compiled on the client for the installed hardware. This can take some time (My project takes 30min for NV, but only <1 min on AMD, interestingly).
    To avoid this the compiled results are stored on HD to be ready at the second launch of the app (shader cache). At the first launch the compiling in the background can cause shuttering and bad perf - bad initial code may be replaced with optimized code after some seconds. Important to know for benchmarks.
    I don't know how this behavior varies between APIs, or if it's possible to ship precompiled shaders for most hardware.

    On console i guess shipping compiled shaders makes more sense, and also likely the manual choice between 64 / 32 waves will be possible for compute.
     
    snarfbot and DavidGraham like this.
  13. no-X

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,291
    Likes Received:
    238
    [​IMG]
    Edit: To make it short "Ryzen" word without "TM", product logo floating unaligned to company logo. It's not even the official Ryzen 7 logo used in the current presentations. Those slide look different. Where they are edited, outdated or made in haste, I wouldn't take such content as predicative.

    Edit 2: Here is the background image, here is image of the box.
     
    #913 no-X, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    Picao84 likes this.
  14. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,098
    Likes Received:
    2,814
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    Random things I noticed on later skimming of the LLVM commit I linked to earlier:
    While the dot product instructions do have a lot of commonality between GFX1011 and GFX1012, there are some differences like GFX1012 showing extra mentions for atomic instructions that the other GFX10 variants did not. This may have more importance in a compute scenario.

    GFX1011 has a sparse set of entries for errors with some instructions and little documentation. I suppose it'd be fun to mention a few lines here:
    Since this is a skeleton of an error file, I am not sure what prompted their mention here at this time.
     
  15. dobwal

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,978
    Likes Received:
    996
    What’s up with the funny text? That’s a weird choice for a font in a professional marketing setting. LOL. It looks like the photoshop version of someone cutting out letters individually from a magazine and pasting a message together by hand. The inconsistent spacing between the words and letters really offends my sense of symmetry. It looks totally out place in promotional material.
     
  16. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,108
    Likes Received:
    1,802
    Location:
    Finland
    Actually I can confirm that this and the other slides posted by Komachi Ensaka are real and straight from AMD. They're from Travis Kirschs and Don Woligroskis Ryzen 3000 Series Deep Dive -presentation

    This is legit too, from Laura Smiths and Mithun Chandrasekhars Radeon 5700 Breakout -presentation

    edit: and the one posted by @DavidGraham is legit too, it's from the Ryzen 3000 Series Deep Dive -presentation too

    edit2: read too quickly @Ike Turner you knew your slide was legit but were wondering about DavidGrahams, oh well, no harm double confirming yours
     
  17. LordEC911

    Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    'Zona
    Still haven't seen anything regarding actual power consumption in any of the documentation...

    Can anyone make sense of this slide along with the endnotes?

    perfwatt.JPG


    It would appear that performance/watt part was based on a Division 2 run at 2560x1440 Ultra settings, with a 40CU Navi vs a "Vega 64" with 40CUs enabled. So that 14% more performance doesn't seem great vs a 40CU Vega 64 but the 23% less power is interesting if a Vega56 is around 210w.
    Edit- the 14% increase in performance is the exact same as the clock difference between Navi's gaming clockspeed and Vega 64's boost clockspeed...

    Then the area comparison of a 14nm "Vega10" is Vega 56 vs Navi. (I assume they used a 40CU Navi for bigger numbers rather than the 36CU Navi)
     
    #917 LordEC911, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    DavidGraham likes this.
  18. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,108
    Likes Received:
    1,802
    Location:
    Finland
    Closest thing at this point would be 180W and 225W TBP which they did confirm. No hard numbers on actual consumption yet AFAIK though
     
  19. DieH@rd

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,065
    Likes Received:
    1,993
    A brief look at the most notable changes inside Navi [CUs and caches], with a short explanation about backwards compatibility with GCN for console use.
     
    function likes this.
  20. DDH

    DDH

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0

    Ca you provide any context around the graphs provided in the second one. Are they showing showing a comparison of relative performance between the two systems listed, and if so is there anything noteworthy about the tests?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...