AMD: "[Developers use PhysX only] because they’re paid to do it"

[AlexV]

To be fair, didn't someone hack a HL2 path to use only FP16 or INT16 calcs, and it ended up being faster and looking basically the same as the included HL2 path on NV3x hardware?

The first part would be correct, although the looking basically the same part isn't entirely so (my recollection of things is that there were issues, since it was a rather rough "OMG, _pp powah!!Let's put it everywhere!". Also, I see the axiom holds up fine: no matter what, all threads end up discussing the NV30

 

[OpenGL guy]

To be fair, didn't someone hack a HL2 path to use only FP16 or INT16 calcs, and it ended up being faster and looking basically the same as the included HL2 path on NV3x hardware? I suppose this falls under the same category as Humus' Doom 3 hack (texture look-ups -> math) as a case of the dev not wanting to add another path for the sake of ease of maintenance.

It's not exactly comparable. Humus' change preserved the mathematics of the shader calculation. Forcing FP16 in HL2 did not, which is why it looks worse.

 

[Sontin]

And doesn't the nv3x support all of those ?Why would it need a special path ?

Ask AMD and Valve.

Why should a dev focus extra time and money for spcial nvidia paths ? Shouldn't nvidia have made a proper performing dx 9 card instead of having to get developers to program special paths.

It sounds a lot like:

Why should a dev focus extra time and money for spcial [AMD] paths ? Shouldn't [AMD] have made a proper performing dx [10| card instead of having to get developers to program special paths.

 

[eastmen]

Ask AMD and Valve.

Why ? The amd card ran dx 9 paths just fine. Its nvidia's card that doesn't

It sounds a lot like:

Because dx 10.1 is a spec of dx 10. Its not amd's fault nvidia didn't support it till very recently.

You might want to ask why Nvidia paid developers to drop support for it.

 

[aaronspink]

It is totally useless to have discussions with some people because they truely want to believe that Nvidia is the devil of GPUs and Intel the devil of CPUs and AMD/ATI the angels over them all.

And then there are the others that you have a hard time figuring out if they are in fact employed by nvidia solely to hit the forums with pro nvidia propaganda. Considering Nvidia has admitted as much in the past...

 

[itsmydamnation]

And then there are the others that you have a hard time figuring out if they are in fact employed by nvidia solely to hit the forums with pro nvidia propaganda. Considering Nvidia has admitted as much in the past...

Well if nv are employing him in that role,he better pick up his game. I think the only person who agrees with him would be Solin, coworkers?:smile:

 

[jimmyjames123]

And then there are the others that you have a hard time figuring out if they are in fact employed by nvidia solely to hit the forums with pro nvidia propaganda. Considering Nvidia has admitted as much in the past...

Oh puhleeze You do realize that one of the big posters in this thread, "eastmen", is the artist formerly known as "jvd" , ie. possibly the biggest pro-ATI anti-NVIDIA guy ever (and if you don't believe me, ask Rys)? Or how about all the other ATI/AMD employees who post here without identifying themselves (even Dave Baumann, product manager at ATI, doesn't divulge this info in his forum signature)? And let's not forget all the Intel employees who have been posting recently (hint hint) It's true that many years ago there was some mess with the organization in charge of putting together NV's focus group, but nowadays all NVIDIA focus group members are required to identify themselves in their forum sigs.

 

[aaronspink]

Oh puhleeze You do realize that one of the big posters in this thread, "eastmen", is the artist formerly known as "jvd" , ie. possibly the biggest pro-ATI anti-NVIDIA guy ever (and if you don't believe me, ask Rys)? Or how about all the other ATI/AMD employees who post here without identifying themselves (even Dave Baumann, product manager at ATI, doesn't divulge this info in his forum signature)? And let's not forget all the Intel employees who have been posting recently (hint hint) It's true that many years ago there was some mess with the organization in charge of putting together NV's focus group, but nowadays all NVIDIA focus group members are required to identify themselves in their forum sigs.

What do you do when your secret astroturfing group gets exposed? Come clean and start another secret astroturfing group!

And really coming after Dave? If anyone HERE doesn't know who Dave is, they probably should even be here!

 

[rpg.314]

And really coming after Dave? If anyone HERE doesn't know who Dave is, they probably should even be here!

a) If you are here long enough and still don't know about Dave, well then .....

b) For newcomers, this condition is defintely not fair...

c) In Dave's sig, there is a link to an official AMD blogpost, which was written by Dave himself, so not fair to say Dave doesn't identify himself. Though there are others who don't identify their employers, for whatever reasons.

 

[jimmyjames123]

What do you do when your secret astroturfing group gets exposed? Come clean and start another secret astroturfing group!

And really coming after Dave? If anyone HERE doesn't know who Dave is, they probably should even be here!

You managed to do it again, you sidestepped the issues But wait, I get it, you only speak for yourself, not your employer

I am not coming after DB, not even close. Dave Baumann is a good guy, and very passionate and knowledgeable about the industry too. Of course all the regulars here know him. The point is that apparently AMD/ATI and even Intel don't appear to care that their employees clearly identify themselves on the forums. From what I remember reading in the past couple years, NVIDIA is much more strict about that kind of thing. Hell, even focus group members are required to post as such in their sigs, and they are not even employees of the company. I'd love to get Chris's take on this, but that's not possible, and he's in a better place right now

 

[Squilliam]

Oh puhleeze You do realize that one of the big posters in this thread, "eastmen", is the artist formerly known as "jvd" , ie. possibly the biggest pro-ATI anti-NVIDIA guy ever (and if you don't believe me, ask Rys)? Or how about all the other ATI/AMD employees who post here without identifying themselves (even Dave Baumann, product manager at ATI, doesn't divulge this info in his forum signature)? And let's not forget all the Intel employees who have been posting recently (hint hint) It's true that many years ago there was some mess with the organization in charge of putting together NV's focus group, but nowadays all NVIDIA focus group members are required to identify themselves in their forum sigs.

Im an Nvida focus group test lead and a long time employee of Nvidia and I don't divulge it in my signature.

JKJK

Anyway, who are these supposed Intel people anyway? In any case we would actually be a lot more productive here if everyone exposed themselves for who they really are. (sorry no naked pictures Digi ). That way the people who ought to be credible in their chosen fields can actually divulge who theyare and be respected for it.

 

[aaronspink]

From what I remember reading in the past couple years, NVIDIA is much more strict about that kind of thing. Hell, even focus group members are required to post as such in their sigs, and they are not even employees of the company. I'd love to get Chris's take on this, but that's not possible, and he's in a better place right now

Nvidia pretty much had to come out and be strict because they got caught pretty much red handed astroturfing numerous message boards. At the time it was a significant story within the computer enthusiast community. They were literally paying people to post good things about nvidia and bad things about their competitors.

As for other companies, generally companies merely require that employees make it clear that what they are posting is their own content and in no way reflects the opinion or official policy of said company. I'm fairly certain that if other companies got caught astroturfing message boards they'd enact stronger policies, but so far that hasn't occurred.

I certainly have nothing to hide, being one of the few on this or any other message board that doesn't post under a pseudonym and therefore can be easily googled. Personally, I find the whole handle thing fit only for 5 year olds and not really a good idea on any serious discussion forum.

 

[itsmydamnation]

http://twitter.com/AaronSpink

 

[aaronspink]

http://twitter.com/AaronSpink

yeah, not me.

 

[itsmydamnation]

thank you capitan oblivious

 

[Squilliam]

Aaron Spink is a senior hardware engineer at Intel, currently involved in the definition and design of future system interfaces for the Itanium processor

Do I get 100 points or what?!

In any case this begs the question, what does an Intel employee say about an Intel Insides cartoon which isn't particularly clever or funny? Personally Gefoursaurus was wayyy better. Sli bridges FTW!

 

[Davros]

So who's this bloody Dave guy

 

[eastmen]

Oh puhleeze You do realize that one of the big posters in this thread, "eastmen", is the artist formerly known as "jvd" , ie. possibly the biggest pro-ATI anti-NVIDIA guy ever (and if you don't believe me, ask Rys)? Or how about all the other ATI/AMD employees who post here without identifying themselves (even Dave Baumann, product manager at ATI, doesn't divulge this info in his forum signature)? And let's not forget all the Intel employees who have been posting recently (hint hint) It's true that many years ago there was some mess with the organization in charge of putting together NV's focus group, but nowadays all NVIDIA focus group members are required to identify themselves in their forum sigs.

Not sure what I have to do with anything. I do like ati because they make great video cards and I've never had a problem. I've been using both ati and nvidia cards since my first riva card .

Also I don't work for AMD. IF they want to hire me then I'm all for it. Sadly I don't think they have any physical pressence in New Jersey. But I could use a job.

 

[trinibwoy]

Personally, I find the whole handle thing fit only for 5 year olds and not really a good idea on any serious discussion forum.

That completely depends on who you work for....

 

[swaaye]

8600GTS(failure) slower than 6800GT.

8600GTS is similar to a 7900GTX. It just cost way too much. I think all that's disappointing about it was its launch price. These cards even had a big advantage over G80 with VPE2 or whatever it's called.

Why should a dev focus extra time and money for spcial nvidia paths ? Shouldn't nvidia have made a proper performing dx 9 card instead of having to get developers to program special paths.

I'm sure NV3x got special attention because it was a very popular series. I wouldn't surprised if those cards were more popular than anything from ATI during those years, as baffling as that may be. The FX cards really needed special attention to perform, especially in a world where the competition had hardware that utterly outclassed those cards.