AMD/ATI for Xbox Next?

[Alkohallick]

.... (BC proved to be not that much of distinguishing factor).

I think thats only because 360 didnt have BC during launch and ps3 cost too much at the time and dropped it latter. If one company has BC from the launch of their new system and the other dosent i think it may make a difference this go round IF there is some parity in price points of the 2 new systems at launch.

 

[makattack]

I think thats only because 360 didnt have BC during launch and ps3 cost too much at the time and dropped it latter. If one company has BC from the launch of their new system and the other dosent i think it may make a difference this go round IF there is some parity in price points of the 2 new systems at launch.

I was under the impression that the 360 does have BC -- even at launch, and still does. In fact, I believe their games-on-demand feature includes a lot of original XBox titles (not ported) listed under "XBox Originals":

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/media/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d8024d4a07d2/?of=7

 

[Dr. Nick]

I think thats only because 360 didnt have BC during launch and ps3 cost too much at the time and dropped it latter. If one company has BC from the launch of their new system and the other dosent i think it may make a difference this go round IF there is some parity in price points of the 2 new systems at launch.

Microsoft didn't have full BC but they did have a decent number of games at launch with the promise of more to come. If BC had ended up being everything that it was touted as early this generation MS would have continued adding to the list. I remember first firing up Ninja Gaiden Black the day the system launched.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Nice. Knowing it's specs will help though. Basically, MS is the company that decides which way GPU's will go. Apart from raw compute, all the fancy new features are decided by them and them alone.

Well, sorta. I may be misinterpreting what you're saying but...

Features of Directx are determined by the IHVs and software devs. All have their input into where they would like Directx to go.

Microsoft tries to balance the wants of the software devs with the IHVs abilities to deliver what software devs would like to have.

So yes, Microsoft has the final say about what will be included or excluded in Directx, but what is included is a compromise between what the software devs want and what the IHVs can deliver. Dx10 is a great illustration of this as many features had to be pared back due to one IHV or another not being able to deliver. Those features later being added in Dx10.1/11

Xbox GPU's will have more direct Microsoft control of features. As they only have to determine what one IHV is capable of and not have to worry about whether or not all major GPU IHVs can deliver on specific features. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Xbox GPUs (specifically Xenos and the next gen GPU) will generally exceed the capabilities of DX when they go into production.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Microsoft didn't have full BC but they did have a decent number of games at launch with the promise of more to come. If BC had ended up being everything that it was touted as early this generation MS would have continued adding to the list. I remember first firing up Ninja Gaiden Black the day the system launched.

MS had to pay Nvidia licensing fees for each BC title released. At some point the added draw of BC was not worth the licensing fees paid to Nvidia.

Regards,
SB

 

[Novum]

What exactly is "BC"?

 

[DeadlyNinja]

What exactly is "BC"?

Backwards Compatibility.

Maybe next gen, we'll finally have those HD graphics they've been promising? I hope they'll run at 60fps without any screen tearing. I can't stand low frame rate with screen tearing. No RROD too.

 

[22psi]

Why do we need next gen for HD graphics and 60fps? Plenty of games do that now.

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Plenty of them run at some weird resolution at 30fps is more like it. COD4 for example is 1024 x 600 as I recall. That's laptop resolution at 60fps. COD2 ran at 720p, but couldn't keep at stable 60fps.

 

[Dr. Nick]

Why do we need next gen for HD graphics and 60fps? Plenty of games do that now.

I have a feeling that once again next generation the majority of games will run at 30fps. Most devs will likely use that extra power to make their games look good.

I remember people complaining about stuff like this last gen and hoping for systems being able to play Doom 3 at 60fps. Well I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen machines could do Uncharted 2, Killzone 2 and Gears 2 at 60fps-120fps but I bet most people wouldn't care so much about that when "Super Mega Awesome Next Gen Game...part X" comes out
running at 30fps ends ups and graphically overshadowing them.

 

[assen]

Yep, and in "meager" 720p too.

If the EDRAM is specced to handle 1080p x 4xAA, and allows texturing from it (No.1 GPU request for the next Xbox, I'm sure), it will make for a killer deferred 720p renderer with the fattest, richest G-buffer you can imagine

 

[grandmaster]

ATI is essentially the default choice for Xbox 1080's GPU isn't it? Microsoft has "history" with both Intel and NVIDIA. The CPU will be the interesting bit.

 

[AzBat]

Everybody is assuming that the GPU is separate from the CPU. Wouldn't it be neat if it was all one processor? Personally I'll just be glad it's the same graphic vendor. BC was OK(not great) on 360, but I'd prefer a hardware compatibility since more titles should be compatible right out of the gate. Let's just hope that they don't renig & remove BC later like Sony. As for the specs, anymore than what I have now is just icing on the cake. We're getting to the point of diminishing returns. Yes, that's heresy in these forums, but on my 32" 720p LCD the higher res won't make much of difference. Just give me lots of unified memory(2gb or more) & a hard drive(500gb or more). I want it all in a smaller box that's less prone to failure, cooler(heat), smaller & hope it doesn't cost more than $300 at launch. Personally I might be more excited at the software side of things. Would be neat to go disc-less for all games. Not even sure I want a Bluray drive now. Doing fine with just streaming.

Tommy McClain

 

[Acert93]

Why do we need next gen for HD graphics and 60fps? Plenty of games do that now.

On the graphics front getting not only 720p or 1080p at higher framerates, but also a lot better texture filtering and anti-aliasing across all fronts. More memory for more detailed geometry, textures (+ additional layers like higher quality normals, displacement maps, etc), and bigger / seamless worlds. If next gen adds real 3D grass, interactive water, leaves, etc as pretty standard with richer particle systems and post processing + IQ improvements (a lot of that is low hanging fruit as PC versions have this stuff) graphically the image quality can take a big jump.

Improvements in processing power to handle richer AI, physics, motion processing, persistant worlds, etc

Every generation needs a hook. This gen HD and motion controls were a hook (first games were just incrimental last gen titles and a lot of the best games are evolutionary) but the coming gen may see 3D displays (120Hz so GPUs outputting 2x60fps), advanced motion controls and cameras, etc as a hook. Digital Distribution, a toe into cloud gaming, etc. But for "standard" games to get the bleeding edge adapters excited offering a big jump in IQ (think Crysis+ at 60fps) won't hurt. Even the FM3 photomode shots could be matched or outdone on newer hardware, which would be a selling point to many.

Motion Control 2.0 + Online Networks 3.0 + Cutting Edge Hardware + Killer Software above this generation + whatever hook (3D displays? VR?) I am sure will get the ball rolling. But we are what, 3 years away still?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Everybody is assuming that the GPU is separate from the CPU. Wouldn't it be neat if it was all one processor?

Well considering the time frame involved. It's entirely possible that MS might be looking at Fusion as a possibility. But if the design cycle is well underway, I doubt they would take a gamble on something like that.

Now if the design cycle was starting in 2011-2012 looking at release in 2014-2015, then I'd personally think Fusion would be a lot more likely.

However, as far as this particular rumor is concerned. I'm betting on standard GPU/CPU configuration.

THAT said, I wouldn't be surprised if there were provisions in place for AMD to design the GPU such that it would be trivial to later integrate it into a CPU ala. Fusion.

Regards,
SB

 

[holsty101]

Would be neat to go disc-less for all games.

I'm firmly in the disc-based-please camp for next gen, but do I think it would be very interesting to see what would happen if (eg) MS went DD only & Sony included an optical drive.

 

[DrJay24]

I like the option to trade, lend and sell my games. If they can ad this to DD then I'd be for it.

 

[dobwal]

Well considering the time frame involved. It's entirely possible that MS might be looking at Fusion as a possibility. But if the design cycle is well underway, I doubt they would take a gamble on something like that.

Now if the design cycle was starting in 2011-2012 looking at release in 2014-2015, then I'd personally think Fusion would be a lot more likely.

However, as far as this particular rumor is concerned. I'm betting on standard GPU/CPU configuration.

THAT said, I wouldn't be surprised if there were provisions in place for AMD to design the GPU such that it would be trivial to later integrate it into a CPU ala. Fusion.

Regards,
SB

How a MCM package with the CPU, GPU and Edram sitting together as a single chip? Xenos is already an MCM and IBM has a history of MCM use with the Power arch.

 

[holsty101]

I like the option to trade, lend and sell my games. If they can ad this to DD then I'd be for it.

Oh for sure, if that happens it would certainly help adoption and I hope options like that become the norm for whatever DD games we get next gen, but personally I'd still opt for disc based most of the time even with more consumer friendly DRM, and still definitely include an OD in the machine no matter how "good" the DRM is, but I don't want to get too off topic ...

So slightly more on topic (at least it was mentioned in the OP ... "The consoles refresh was supposed to happen in 2010 but due to the recession both Microsoft and Sony have decided to push its plans for 2012 and keep the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 alive for more than it was originally planned."), removing the recession from the equation, was next gen in 2010 ever a certainty? I think no myself, that quote just struck me as ... well, a bit pointless, and (probably?) incorrect too boot.

 

[AzBat]

I like the option to trade, lend and sell my games. If they can ad this to DD then I'd be for it.

Agreed. I'd love to have those options too. But as I'm getting older I'm finding myself buying less & less disc games & spending my money on XBLA & XBLIG instead. I would probably buy more GOD games, but that's totally at odds with my cheapskate personality. Maybe if they allowed you to trade your disc directly to Microsoft for the digital version, for a small fee of course, then I might go totally digital.

Tommy McClain